Real life molestation caught on camera
This blog post is about last year’s new year’s incident (2007) as well as this year’s (2008).
On New Year’s Eve, a Midday reporter Shadab Khan caught on camera a crowd of about sixty people surrounding a 
young girl and her boy-friend at the Gateway of India in Mumbai. The reporter got these pictures from a height -he was atop a police post trying to capture the spirit of the revellers. As the clock struck midnight the screaming girl was pawed and manhandled by the thugs surrounding her and her boy-friend was roughly pushed aside. In the melee her dress was torn and she fell down. One doesn’t know exactly how but the couple managed to extricate themselves from 
the crowd and run away. No police complaint was filed. Today, the Colaba Police is planning to undertake an investigation into the incident and has taken the pictures from the reporter.
Shadab Khan writes about how shocked he is at the incident and wonders how such a thing could happen in Mumbai. Even today the press is writing about how shocking the whole incident is. That only Delhi is supposedly notorious for this kind of public behavior.
Well, I think the press should wake up and speak to a few ladies who travel by public transport or have been caught in crowds. Only then they can shed the illusion that these things happen only in Delhi. Whether it is Mumbai, Delhi, Bangalore, Pune or Calcutta, there are always cheap sex crazy elements lying in wait to molest women. Pornography, which is now freely available on the internet has just whetted their appetite.
Personal experiences
I have lived in all the cities mentioned above and have had the bad luck of being pawed in all the cities. True, my experiences in Delhi (I studied there) were the maximum (movie theatre, shop, roads, buses) but I have also been pawed in the Calcutta metro, in a Ganpati Visarjan (holy procession) on Pune’s Laxmi Road and in a crowded kirana (grocery) store in Bangalore! In Mumbai? Just once at a railway station while waiting for a local. In fact these are the only incidents that I remember. I am not even counting the incidents (if you can call them that) when men tried to touch or brush past in the hope of grabbing a feel. I am not even counting the incidents of the scores of men I have seen exposing themselves at railway stations, bus stations and once even on a hill where I had gone for a walk! And I don’t even wear sleeveless! I am considered a prude when it comes to dress-sense.
The sad truth is that every woman who travels daily by public transport has encountered perverts, and her dress doesn’t matter. Once when I was wearing a saree, a young boy came from behind and grabbed me. He was on a cycle.
All this often makes me long for a sexually promiscuous society so that these sick men can go and do it with willing women instead of bothering strangers.
Well, these incidents are in the past now. For the past ten years or so I have been moving around in a car or at the worst - in a rickshaw. So I am safe. I avoid crowded places and so do all the women I know.
Wonder why the press doesn’t know it? Surely they have women reporters? Or are we simply being hypocritical?
(Photos are sourced from Midday)
5th January: The police have arrested the guilty men, all teenagers residing in the slums of Ghakopar. You can find the details here in a Midday report. However, the girl has not come forward to register a complaint and therefore one wonders what action can be taken.
Also, more women have come forward and admitted to the problems they have had with roadside romeos. Thankfully the press covered this in detail today. This should hopefully lead to a public awareness campaign to educate people how terrible a woman feels when she is molested.
Later update: It has also come to light that the girl who was molested was an Indian American girl.
Another shameful incident took place on 26th September in Mumbai: Girls, some of them from Jai Hind College were molested near Wankhede Stadium on Marine Drive in Mumbai in the crowds when our cricket team was returning from the airport in an open bus. This was an open bus which the cricketers rode in and huge crowds thronged the roads on either side. An opportunity that molesters took.
This is the link:
The girls were molested very badly and apparently a lot more girls were molested and seen crying on the side of the road. Groups of men surrounded the girls and did whatever they could.
This sort of thing is a part and parcel of Indian society now and everyone should beware. No Indian city is safe. The police do nothing and give stupid statements like these things did not happen at one time. They always happened in India and always will unless these offenders are put behind bars for at least 10 years. Is that harsh punishment for these molesters? I don’t think so. No girl is safe in crowds in any city in India.
Update: 2nd January 2008. Another shameful incident which has been reported by the Hindustan Times today. The link is here. What happened was that two women were molested by a group of 4-5 men but a mob of 70-80 men was watching and did nothing. One woman was with her husband and there was another couple with them. They were coming out of the Marriot Hotel at around 1 a.m., when the incident happened. The fact that these people are sure that they will get away is proved by the fact that they do not care if they are caught on camera. The molesters of last year got away because apparently the girl didn’t come forward to complain. Even in the earlier incident, of the molestation which happened in the crowds cheering the cricket fans, the same thing happened. The girls did not complain. And the molesters got away. In any case, such incidents are very common in cities. The police do nothing. Molestation is considered a minor crime.
I know someone who was out on New Years Eve at Juhu. She was in a group of girls who were returning home from Juhu and their car was stuck in a traffic jam around midnight. They had gone to a restaurant just ten minutes walk from their home but chose to go in their car. They were stuck in the car for over an hour, but they did not step out. This girl tells me:
Hordes of men in huge groups were walking around on the road and we were amazed. There were all-male groups and we couldn’t understand what they were doing, just walking on the road!
It’s shocking the way the police commissioner has reacted to this incident. He says it’s a trivial one. Sure, we understand that the police cannot monitor each and every group that walks on the roads, but they can definitely stop people walking around in groups of 20-30! And they can take action against the molesters. Up till now the molesters have not been arrested even though they were caught on camera.
Jan 3rd. It’s been revealed that the couples were from California, United States. One couple had got married just the day before according to a tv news report and the other two were the man’s brother and cousin sister.
A second incident took place in Kochi, and this link was sent to me by a reader via a comment. You can see the video of the news report here. Apparently the molester was so brazen that he molested the 15 year old daughter of a foreign tourist as the tourist was being interviewed on TV and was recounting his wonderful experiences of India!
Pune Incident on New Years Eve 2008: There was another incident where a group of five to six men were allegedly clicking pictures of a UK based NRI woman, her spouse and another couple. When the couples objected, the drunk men attacked them. You can read about the incident here.
Incident at Kolkata (200 
. The Times of India has reported:
When the clock struck midnight on New Year’s eve (, a horror story unfolded on Kolkata’s entertainment hot spot. Bikes took control of Park Street, the nervecentre of Christmas and New Year revelry. And the transition from 2007 to 2008 was not without girls being groped by unknown hands, humiliated, some shedding tears; their companions struggling to protect and console them…TOI had carried an investigative report on the previous year’s New Year’s eve where revellers were snapped molesting girls on Park Street. It prompted a bigger deployment of police force, but they could not stop the horror re-run…
Update: 19th February 2008. A foreigner was molested in the Gandhi Ashram in Ahmedabad yesterday. She was looking at pictures of India’s Freedom struggle when two drunk men entered, grabbed and kissed her. The staff managed to catch one of them, but the other escaped. What’s shocking is that no complaint is being filed! Read the story here.
Related Reading: Reasons and Solutions for Molestation
Tips to prevent eve-teasing and public molestation
The psychology of a rapist
How a poor attitude towards women can be changed
Teens in India are forced to keep their relationships a secret
Filed under: Crime, HowTo, India, Life, News, Sex, Society, Women, crimes against women | Tagged: Ahmedabad, crowds, incident Wankhede Stadium, Kochi, Kolkata, molestation, molestation incidents, molested girls, New Year
Sad thing, shameless perverted person.
You are right, such thing every where happens, and definately ,Mumbai is not immune to such things.
People are trying to fight the menace. http://blanknoiseproject.blogspot.com/
Might sound sarcastic - but i think we should have a regular column in newspapers describing the plight of our women. After reading the stories repeatedly people who don’t think or talk about the problem might just start to do that.
I think your suggestion is excellent. Every single day we should have a woman write about her experience in a daily newspaper. Going to regional newspapers is important as one has to reach out to the masses. Television is also a very important medium. If a woman talks about how horrible she feels when she is treated as a sex object it might sensitize some men.
That alone wont do. Every father and mother should talk to their kids about this. We have to make the boys realize that girls are human beings too. Trying to make them learn that once they are men is going to be difficult.
But it seems that the activists are not reaching out to the rural poor. Or is it that we are not having enough visibility of their actions?
I think what the activists are doing is a drop in the ocean. In our country the status of women is low and that is why cases of molestation and rape are very high. That is also why women do not report the incidents. They know that they will be blamed. Even if a man passes a lewd mark, the first question in the mind of most people is: What was the woman wearing? What was she doing? What was she doing there? Why was she there at that time? Why was she alone? Did she talk to the man? Did she look at him?
Well, that’s life in India for you.
This is Why I support the DEATH Penalty. They should hang these guys who have no shame about thier Mothers.
Women please get your acts together and Show you are the strongest one.
You are future of India
Pictures of the accused should be broadcast in media with address and names…
SHAMELESS!! RATHER TRYING TO CALL POLICE OR SAVE GIRL BY ANY POSSIBLE MEANS THE REPORTER WAS BUSY RECORDING THE INCIDENT ON CAMERA…SHAME ON YOU, SHADAB KHAN.GIRLS CAN NEVER BE SAFE IN A COUNTRY WHERE PEOPLE LIKE SHADAB AND SOME HUMAN ANIMALS THRIVE…..
It was comforting to know that those thugs were rounded up. At least something is right about this system.
I am American and I have visited India 4 times. I’ve worked with many Indians and have been to the cities you mention more than once. I cannot understand why India is not able to move forward, why there is still such poverty, why there are so many places where one cannot drink the water, why the electricity is not reliable even in the biggest cities, why with the incredible treasures India has, the country cannot get its “act together.” Why is this? Such a fantastic country with such a rich heritage and diversity, brilliant scholars, thinkers, engineers, and religions. The center of enlightenment where the Buddha was born — yet such crudeness. Why — and why not?
India is an enigma to most foreigners. If India has not moved ahead in terms of it’s infrastructure the massive population is partly to blame. The facilities cannot keep up with the population.
But why did India balloon out this much anyway? Lack of education for one. But why are there people in India who do not value education?
The answer lies in India’s history. The invasions, both the Mughal and the British left their mark. Some of it was good and some of it was bad.
I personally believe that India would have progressed far more if it wasn’t for the invasions - but then India would not have been ‘India’, it would have been several countries. Some of these countries would have fallen by the wayside, but some would have shone - maybe all would have shone. Tell me, is it a coincidence that some of the most backward states in India today (and those with the most myopic view of women) were the states that were the most mauled during the invasions?
Historians in India are terrified to bring into the open the terrible moral devastastion that ocurred because of the invasions - because religious issues are involved. Religion is a sensitive issue in India today. Apparently the truth is not important enough.
There are also some who feel that one should forget it and move on. Well, it’s taking time. Unless a nation understands itself how can it move on?
I think this event is very sad. It is sad for the woman who was molested, for the city it happened in (Mumbai) and also for entire Indian population. It would be foolish to say that such incidences dont happen in cities like Mumbai and it is a isolated incident. Dont women get raped in Mumbai, maybe the numbers are higher in Delhi but no women is completely safe in any city. I would also like to rebuke people who say its the girls fault. No matter what kind of clothes you wear or what make-up you wear or even what ag eyou are. It doesnt matter to a animal who just looks at a female as a object to abuse.
Dear Nita
This is a message from Belgium. I was quite shocked to read the article and saw the picture of the perverts, molestating the innocent lady and her boyfriend. It’s been on my mind for days. How the hell can this happen in 2007? How come all these men are dirty perverts? They should be all punished severely. If this is just allowed in those cities, and if men are just allowed to touch women as if they are their toys, then those cities have a huge problem. It can happen 1 time, but not a few times (Indian girl, Australian couple).
Cause who wishes to visit a place with dirty perverts, touching you, and the police is watching, and other women are watching too, and they find those things ‘normal’?
I hope they will start punishing those perverts and make men respect women, by education. And if even that won’t help, then what the hell are those guys?????
In our eyes, no human beings and not even animals behave like that.
I think it’s sad that tourists and everyone have to adapt, and change clothes, when the perverts are the ones who should be punished and stopped.
Heads off for your articles, you got my full support!!!!! Keep on writing like that.
It’s good for Indian women that the world knows what’s going on. So maybe tourists stay away from those cities, and the staying away of tourists might be a reason for the leaders of those places to stop the perverts.
In Belgium they would be sent such a perverts to psychiatric institution. How about building one at those places???
I don’t think those men act like that because of being poor. In Nepal, they are also poor, but most men are very respectfull to women. I can not even imagine that they would collect 60 friends to go bothering an innocent lady with her boyfriend.
Greetz
Girlpower rules
Hi Girlpower. Yes you are right - education is the only way to stop the perverts. I read a forum which has taken my article and they had a big discussion on this. They all agreed (both boys and girls) that education is the solution and it has to start at an early age. Instead - in India boys are taught at an early age that they are superior to women and in some cases they are taught to view women as sex objects.
It’s too deep a problem to be solved by campaigns, though they too help to create awareness. Every thing needs to be done to stop this eve-teasing menace.
And yes maybe the Indian government will wake up if this gets around the world. Maybe then they will wake up and police will be sympathetic if a woman complains that a man has brushed past her and touched her breast while doing so. Today the police will ignore such a complaint, women commuters will say forget it and the culprit will say it is an accident.
It is indeed shameful that there were so many men around that girl at the Gateway and not one came to rescue her!So you can imagine what it’s like for a brief and quick act of touching a breast.
Frankly it shames me terribly when a foreigner is molested in this country. They go back with such a poor impression and at times they become mentally disturbed. They are not used to it.
dear nita…
India benifited a lot with the invasions as it was exposed to a lot of other cultures and really please dont jump to conclusions that India dosent value education.
people are poor and have to send kids to work instead.
hi friend from belgieum,
A FRIEND OF MINE WENT TO YOUR COUNTRY AND was robbed of his camera.Now does that reflect an everyday reality of belgium.
Another was passed a racist remark in one of your public transport system.Is that something that happens always in your nation?
I am also shocked by your naive questions…This is an Isolated inscident and certainly in Mumbai its not a norm.Scores of working women in Mumbai will tell you that.
What we are seeing is mob psychology.Nothing more.
Dear friend from Belgium,
Why shouldnt the tourists not adapt themselves when we adapt ourselves as soon as we enter your country?.
If i come to your country in a turban and a lungi what would your reaction be?.
You have to respect the law of the land and its customs once you enter it.Whats wrong with that.If france wants all the muslims not to wear skull caps we as indians expect some particular type of clothing from you as you travel our countries.
Not to avoid perverts but to let people understand you better.
India is poor because for us poverty is ok but not moral corruption.
Ravikiran
I saw you left some remarks on my opinion, that I have written down here.
First: I am sorry for your friend that he get robbed and that another friend of yours passed a racist remark in public.
That can indeed happen in every country, and does certainly not reflect reality.
But what happened in Mumbai, it did not happen, as far as I remember, in Belgium or anywhere else. It’s not a normal thing to happen. Don’t just call it ‘mob psychology’. It’s pervert behaving.
It’s not normal this is happening.
Second: You might call me naive and whatsoever. I am never going to change my mind. These guys have no right to touch an innocent lady like that, no matter how she was dressed.
Also tourists may not be touched because they are dressed like this or like that. We are not coming to live in your country, we’re only there for a visit. Do you expect female tourist women to walk in sari’s, and cover their bodies?
I saw many Indians visiting Europe, and some of them still wear their sari’s and their tradition clothes. Everybody has to right to be dressed in his own dress-style. And no one has to right to touch someone or bug a lady. No one.
I do not need the perverts to understand me. No thank you. Don’t worry, I wont visit those places.
Fourth: I must be right, but I guess you’re a (conservative) man. I am not your friend, so do not call me ‘your friend from Belgium.’
Just think whatever you wish to think about my opinion. We’re all free in mind.
There are so much poor countries in the world, eg: Nepal. We have been there many many times, and never ever have I heared about tourist ladies getting bugged and touched by 60 men.
Tourist are sometimes being stolen there, maybe it might happen that a lady get raped, but 60 men trying to rape a woman: never heared of that story before.
They are also very poor in Nepal, so don’t blame poverty in India for this pervert behavior. The one to blame is the way boys are thought that they must be superior to ladies and that girls are worth zero. That’s I think the huge problem you are dealing with. No respect for women causes this behavior.
Greetz
Girlpower
So Nita and all ladies
I am with you, and I’ll come up for the rights of the women in the world.
You got my full support.
I do not disgust or look down upon your country, I only feel sad for you, ladies, that (I read so in the article) that this is happening to so many women.
I am not an extreme feministe, I am not an extremist. I am just feeling sad when the rights of women are being violated, and when I hear that women have to face this happenigs every day.
You got my support
Girlpower
such behaviour is becoming increasingly common in india, and the reason is a deadly cocktail of prudishness and promiscuity. sexual scenes in films are acceptable only if they project rape! it’s shocking for a couple to kiss on screen while the heroine’s sister has been gangraped since 1970 without any let-up. and while sexual attitudes have certainly become more liberal in the upper and middle classes, the underbelly of society - the guys who molested the girl at the Gateway - the workers and the drivers, cooks, sweepers, garbage collectors - are sexually frustrated as never before.
For that reason, I would never advise a female friend of mine to visit India without a strong male companion.
Also, strength talks here. It’s a nasty place if you’re weak, but very deferential if you are six foot four and have bulging biceps.
i totally agree wth the writer..a woman, irrespective of her age, size and shape, is not safe anywhere,be it home of the outer world..the traumatic experiences start frm a young age. the worst part is tht the scars remain in mind,the shock leaves u terrified for days to come…anf worst of all, somewhere u start feeling guilty abt it..esp witg people telling u to either ignore it or to keep mum…is this wat we call woman empowerment? But..u need to a male to terrify another male..and the problem is not jus a criminal one, its a social one and needs a lot of social sensitisation and almost revolutionising male mentality.
To Nita and Supporter of Girl Power,
I agree with you. That is one of the major reasons why I hardly have any connections with Indian Men (even from the upper-middle or middle class) although, I am myself an Indian. There is no reason for being proud of India since I am sure problems of rape, eve-teasing, molesting tourists and foreigners, caste-system, racism, poverty which have been prevailing in India since last 100 years and will probably never improve.
Nita,
back to your topic of British Rule, yes it was actually better sometimes I think and believe that perhaps it may had been better if they were still ruling us. Atleast there would be law and order and protection of each and every woman.
India, as a society needs to change in order to become a civilised society and set an example to the world instead of wining about its past.
Ravikiran,
No offense, but what happened to your friend happens everywhere and not just Belgium. Come on, first learn how to clean your own toilet, then ask Girlpower from Belgium to clean hers. When will that day come when tourists will be able to travel freely and peacefully in India without having fears of being robbed and raped and molested by a group of uneducated, pervert, good for nothing men who do not have respect for any women and view them only as sex objects? And tourists do not need to adapt their dressing styles since it is only for a visit. Not like some desperate Indian people wanting to live in other people’s countries without even making the minimum effort to adjust to their cultures.
the punishment for crimes like these should be life imprisonment without parole
when I was 8 years old I was raped by an older man in India but been molested as a teenager. See…how sick is that? I hate it how our guys act like they have never seen a girl their whole lives. Our culture itself is degrading to women. The thing is our country has a mentality that guys are aggressive and it is the girls duty to be chaste. I think parents and adults need to tell boys that girls have feelings too and to respect women. Our culture is not open…for example parents and adults dont talk honestly to their children about these matters. Teenagers copy nonsense from bollywood movies that make eve-teasing a joke and get wrong ideas from porn…
I am a mother of two young boys and my husband and I decided its never too early to teach them manners, how to respect women and will openly talk to them according to age appropriateness of course. For example, I give my boys chores so that they dont grow up with the mentality that housework is only womens work and they help around the house and pick up after themselves. I’m proud of them for that and I’m sure their future wives will thank me.
We told our boys about molestation. Even boys can get molested too. I told my young boys that is it wrong for others to touch them there and that they should tell mommy and daddy if it happens. I know this is long but when I was raped at 8, I was scared, I didnt know what it was and I didnt tell anyone becuz I thought I did something wrong. I wish somebody told me.
And while we are on the subject. We need to acknowledge that our country has a serious problem. I have gone to much poorer countries to do non-profit work. Those countries poverty, education is nothing compared to India. Its our messed up culture that has to change. PERIOD!
I have even been in areas that have absolutely no running water or electricity and in one village in China, people initially stared at me and my hubby because they have never seen foreigners before. Later they were accepting and treated us like people. But the whole time, I never felt threatened like how I would be if I was in India.
Yes, cameras get stolen, and when I was in London, somebody snatched my purse and laptop but I can live with that. And if some fool says a racist comment is something I can forget and move on. But 60-70 men trying to molest a foreign woman???? Thats disgusting and I have never heard of such a thing. I cant think of anything worse.
And for the ones with nationalistic pride they need to get over themselves. We need to recognize & admit we have a problem and start to change. I cant imagine the future of our country. In the future, Will foreigners visiting India be issued travel warnings of perverted nasty men?
True, there is a serious problem here. Its all rooted in a the fact that women are treated as sex objects.
I don’t think its just nationalistic pride that makes people deny this behavior. I think they think nothing is wrong with staring at women in that way or even treating them roughly (like eve teasing in bollywood movies is shown as courting). Its a complete lack of sensitivity. I have written an article on this blog about this here
Here some social workers turned the tables on the men and only then they understood how it feels.
I would first blame the parents or guardians of these idiots. It is from our parents that we learn what is gud and bad. If you take a survey on this, most of ther persons involving in these activities would be uneducated and coming from rural places. To avoid this in future, i think we need to increase the standard of education in rural places.
Any comments on this would be highly appreciated !!!
Lack of education may be a factor but these were city boys. The main thing as you said is upbringing where women are not respected in the home. These kind of boys come from homes where they see their mothers and sisters being treated as subhumans. Therefore its only a step further for them to molest women who are not their sisters and mothers. Its the same, they shout and ill treat the women in the family, force them to dress in a particular way, restrict their movements, monitor their behavior…and where outside women are ocncerned, these women are seen as sex objects without any feeling.
Hi,
Only if the women are courageous to open their tops and show everything to th staring person and give a shock treatment, only then this menance will stop.
It is the non verbal communication of the sex starved person so you have to deal with it.
Hello Nita
I feel very sorry for that girl & his boyfriend. I can not believe this can happen in India. This is not something you can think of a normal life in Mumbai so ” please don’t conclude that this happens everyday and every place in India”. This is just an isolated incidence. Isolated but shameful.
It doesn’t matter how educated people are, a large proportion of indian man population still think they are better then womens.
Indian families, till early 90s, used to be male dominated families as only man used to work and womens used to stay home and act as housewives. This is changing now and at a satisfactory rate. It is just opposite in Nepal, womens they run most of the businesses and they bring most of the money in the family. This is the main reason (but not the only reason) why man give respect to womens.
Don’t think that you can stop these things by educating these guys. What is really needed is strong Law enforcement. Indian law system has everything, if not to stop, at least punish those who gets involved in these kind of acts. Major problem is our law enforcement is worst. Police does not really have power and they lack resources and support from politicians.
Crimes against womens happen everywhere in the world. It is only 50 years, we got independence. It will take some time to improve this situation. Not every country was female friendly & great from the begining. People talk about USA, UK & European countries as big examples, please read these facts I am giving below. These lines are taken from website Women’s History in America. Don’t just read it, check the authenticity of each sentence. India was not like this. Please read this carefully:
- In Greek mythology, it was a woman, Pandora, who opened the forbidden box and brought plagues and unhappiness to mankind.
- Early Roman law described women as children, forever inferior to men.
- Early Christian theology perpetuated these views. St. Jerome, a 4th-century Latin father of the Christian church, said: “Woman is the gate of the devil, the path of wickedness, the sting of the serpent, in a word a perilous object.”
- Thomas Aquinas, the 13th-century Christian theologian, said that woman was “created to be man’s helpmeet, but her unique role is in conception . . . since for other purposes men would be better assisted by other men.”
- The attitude toward women in the East was at first more favorable. In ancient India, for example, women were not deprived of property rights or individual freedoms by marriage.
(until 1935, married women in England did not have the full right to own property)
- American Medical Association, founded in 1846, barred women from membership. It was only in 1915 the American Medical Association began to admit women members.
- Indira Gandhi was prime minister of India from 1966 to 1977 (19 years after independence) and from 1980 until her assassination in 1984. How many female presidents did USA had in past? (Not a single one)
I am not saying India is very good with Women rights but it is not true that we are not doing anything to improve the situation. It will take some time, strong determination and involvement from people. As you can understand it took so much time to so called great nations to provide womens what they actually deserve. India is making progress and I am sure with increasing involvement of womens in politics & other proffessional fields this progress will see a great improvement in coming few years.
Respect your mother, sisters & wife and it will be very easy to respect other womens
AT
Ofcourse not AT, these kind of things don’t happen…because local girls are careful not to go to such places! (btw, its been revealed that the molested girl was an Indian American who had no idea what happens at these kinds of places on new years eve). So if one goes to such places these things will happen…now these kind of men may not be a representative of a typical Indian male, but one thing is for sure - perverts head for places (packed crowds) where they can indulge in these kind of things. more opportunity and more anonymity.
This thread is running for almost 7 months now. wow!
I happened to look at some statistics here. I am in no way, repeat, I am NOT justifying crimes against women, but only trying to say that things are not quite as bad in India as the Western world wants to believe. Look at the numbers.
That said, I strongly believe that if our society opens up to natural sexual behaviors and not look at everything from -the-west-ruining-Indian-culture- frame, things would be much better. Giving sex education in school is step one.
Priyank, remember that most of the rapes and sexual molestation cases are not reported in India because of the stigma attached to it. They say the ones that are reported at the tip of the iceberg.
Also, when it comes to molestation then we win I am afraid. Gettng into a crowded packed bus in the west will not be such a problem as it is here. That is somethign no one can deny.
also i agree with you completely about this mentality of blaming the west. We have our own problems and responsible for them. Mostly if you see that some conservative elements keep raising the bogey of the west…I feel they are terrified that their wives and daughters will become impossible to bully if they go the way of the west! Mostly the west is vilified when it comes to the way women behave and dress. Remember that…its women who these west bashers want to control.
I personally feel that people who resort to such henious acts mostly are people from Lower classes and to some extent lower middle class, where women dont really have a respectable position. Partly due to their lack of education and male domination is quite common in those sections of the society. And women are just treated to be toys in such societies where, they are bound to their household work, raising kids, and their personal desires and dreams dont really matter to anyone…. Its only education that can be a solution to all this.. We dont really see things like these in western countries, because there women get a good share of freedom to think like they want and act like they want……. And most of them are educated as well………
But this isnt entirely true…Bcoz the spread of mms scandals etc shows how people derive Cheap pleasure out of such stuff…. And it isnt the work of the lower sections, coz a phone enabled with Mms facilites can only be possessed by a person with reasonable education and social position….. So, i think its high time that education (regd sexuality etc) should be stressed…….. Again, This might also lead to increase in the rates of Premarital Sex… So it should be a careful implementation……
I read the post and can’t help but comment.
It was very sad and deplorable act that had happened and I am really glad that the criminal was caught. If only our law enforcement could be more consistent.
Equal status of women in society, such a wonderful idea. But you know what, the history of humankind is littered with the examples that dominant group always preys upon the weak. And no-one gets what’s just without struggle and best of all deserving it.
Respect is never, never, never asked, rather it is earned. Who the hell will dare not to respect Indira Gandhi, while people may agree/disagree about her political and personal integrity? Or Kalpna Chawla or Mary Curie, or Indira Nooyi. I have never heard them screaming about women’s lib. How come I don’t see many feminists on top, while I do see a lot of women on top?
The reason why I make the above point is that, there will be nothing gained by asking men to change their behavior. The only way attitude of men will change is that women stop treating themselves as sex objects. I know not all women treat themselves as sex objects, but then not all men are perverts.
I work in US and I have seen countless examples in my corporate life till now when some good looking women took advantage of her looks to get assignments. What kind of message would it send to male counterparts? I know all women are not like this, but again not all men are MCPs. Please don’t get me wrong, in my corporate life I have lost to a woman who was really smarter and fought evenly with me. I respect her as a worthy contender, and do not resent it. While the women who did it by smiling and hanging out with sr. VP may have got the promotion but still do not get my respect and I find it hard to think of them purely as a colleague.
To the Belgian girlpower or whatever, I don’t know about Belgium, I have never been there, I am sure its a wonderful country, I know about USA, which, by the way is way more developed than Belgium (please refer to HDI data or other counts), I have lived here for years, and not just lived, but immersed myself in life here. One thing I can tell you. I have seen, heard many perverts that I ever saw in India. If you want to know just look at any American newspaper. Rapes happen here too. But you know what still women in America are better off than their Indian counterpart because they want it and are willing to make same sacrifices a man makes. They are not just crying for someone to come and hand something to them and believe me those kind of women (who don’t believe in their own ability and don’t work hard) are in not in much better shape than India. And by the way have you heard of women sex offenders, or women misusing law to get what they want (say fro example, dowry, sexual harassment). Don’t be naïve to say these don’t happen.
As we all know in the 400+ years of history US has yet to give a women head of state. India has given 2.
Equality means equality in the privileges as well as sacrifices.
Making laws and implementing them will not effect into lasting change until women themselves stop looking from physical point of view and start struggling on the same footing as men.
I have a feeling that many times man is not an enemy of women, rather its other women.
The status mismatch between man and women is not just Indian problem; rather it’s a world over phenomenon. I was wondering how did this happen at all, in almost all the cultures, developing many times secluded without each other’s influence. What went wrong? Someone please share your thoughts
Nita, one comment though, why is west Bengal that has less man centric and more women oriented (women have more say) that other states and yet is one of the most backward states, and Punjab is way more male dominant culture still is way more developed. Just a comment, I know there might be other reasons. My point here is that women empowerment is not the reason behind development; rather it may follow development.
Please do not try to divide the world on women/men line we have enough divisions already. People have and will get what they want and deserve.
KK, certainly I am glad to hear the ‘male’ point of view, but I am afraid I am using the word ‘male’ in inverted commas because certainly I do not believe that all men think like this. But if you read your comment you will see that it is you who have divided men and women into two separate groups. I do not agree with anything you said in fact…
but you are welcome to note down your point of view.
Also please remember the difference between womens lib and human rights. This is not about womens lib, but about human rights.
You have not just generalised and put men and women into categories you have also blamed women for being seen as sex objects! You said:
//The reason why I make the above point is that, there will be nothing gained by asking men to change their behavior. The only way attitude of men will change is that women stop treating themselves as sex objects.//
I cannot believe that you actually meant this? Are you saying that a woman is molested because her neighbour is a bar dancer?
By the way, I hope you know that in India women treat themselves LESS as sexual objects than those in many other countries, but there is MORE molestation. Its because women are considered inferior objects. If you are trying to say that CEO’s and PM’s are to be respected MORE than a poor woman who slogs in the field or brings up 4 children I am extremely disappointed KK. Perhaps you did not mean this. But one thing I will tell you, I do NOT believe that nonsense that glamour womens’ mags bring up, about women who work outside the home being somehow more worthy of respect! 90 percent of women in India WORK HARDER than men, get less nutrition, poor treatment. Please look at India as a whole, not the rich class. And believe me you will find less men molesters in the men who belong to the more affluent class (who probably work harder than their women) than in that section of society where the women work harder. In fact I say just the opposite. When women are not respected, they are treated like donkeys and asses, fed the crumbs, raped and beaten, and made to do the work while their husbands drink and make merry.
I can write more, but not right now. I am really too angry!
Nita,
I certainly appreciate your taking time to respond to my comment.
I definetely agree and feel exteremely bad about anything unjust that happens to anyone, be it male or female.
Nita, My point was not to justify the atrocities against women, rather it was to put my 2 cents on to he possible causes on to why there is a seeming male mindset of treating women as inferior.
I am not saying that a women should be molested because her neighbour is a prostitute. Even a prositute should not be molested. You said it very right and that exactly what I was saying, Its a matter of a criminal violating another human’s fundamental right.And he should and was bought to justice. Why are we generalising it. All men are not molesters (trust me, a huge huge majority isnt), and all women are not prostitutes.
I fail to understand where do u get the idea from my comment that I said women shoule not be respected. I said women, and for that matter any human being, must be respected for what he/she deserved. Honestly I respect a hard working laborer women a lot lot lot more than her drinking and bum husband. We were talking about a group and group mentality and dynamics not an indicvidual case. I have said that not all women nor men are like that.
Tell me one thing. How did we reach this state of affairs at all. Why do men do not respect women (if this is the case). And probaly you wuld agree this is largly the state of affairs worldwide. I am not saying this is right or just, I am just asking why do you think we reached this state, throughout history and throughout cultures. Who is to blame,and why.
I have gone through your other comments and this give me an indication of you being a rational and well thinking human being. Tell me one thing, In this world, throughout the whole history, has there been a single instance when stronger society/race/whatever-group gave weaker his/her due respect or place without struggle.
I would rather think feminist (by no means I am singling out anyone), would do a better thing by encouraging women to be stronger and have enough courage to take charge of their own lives than tellling men to change. This will be a fndamental change that, until reached, will leave status of women largly unchanged, no matter how many laws we make, no matter how many advertisements are played on TV.
Please stop blaming socity, society is a sum total of its members and women are not minority. Why not just get up and claim what is deserved instead of asking men to change behavious coz trust me they wont, history has proven so. People who lack courage to resist injustice are accessory to injustice.
Women are not considered inferior objects, many times they let themselves considered that. I do not know how can you say that indian women consider themselves as less of sex object than other countries. I am sure No women the world over Likes to think herself as sex object. I was just saying that I have seen it in india and world over women using her looks/sexual charm to get what she wants (many many women do that and if you say no to that I have nothing else to say to you). Wives do it to their husbannds, girlfirends do it to their boyfriends, using sex as a enticement and coercion tool, Please, I am not sayng all women or at all times, but I would say a vast majority.Now please be honest to yourself and say if I am not right. I menat that when some one uses sexual charm as a object to get something objctive he/she declares himself/herself a sexual object. Please think about it honestly without being angry. Dont you thing whenever a women does that Altough even then molestation doesnt become right. It is absolutely worng. I just said that its near impossible to change men strereotype of women in general unless use of sexual charms as objective tool is prevalent.
I think you know that in the past situation of women was not all that great in US as well, But it changed not because men were so great that they gave them their due. But beacuse women here have staked their claims on what is justly theirs and many times ruthlesslly snatched it. To the extent they are successful to that extent they have respect here.
I repeat again, respect is not given, it is earned. Many times it reuires lot of struggle and many times unfortunate distruction (say for example indian struggle for freedmm) but it has to be earned. Any section of society, which does not go out and fight for its right and respect it deserves, will be downtrodden and no law can ever change that. This is awful but that how it is.
Other than the above post that I just posted couple of minutes back, Just some points I thought I wolud just write, may not be very pertinent but do state need for treating criminals as criminals and not as men or women.
In within a week of marriage in 2002, Toronto-based electronics engineer Raghu Modi was told by his wife (a New Delhi resident) that she had married him for Visa and had no intention of terminating relationship with her paramour.
• After Modi refused to process the immigration formalities for his wife, she filed a “dowry” case against him and demanded Rs 26 lakh to “settle” the case. Unable to bear the harassment, Modi paid Rs 7 lakh to settle the case. Within a month, his wife married her paramour.
• New York-based Jaspreet’s wife — a registered medical practitioner — filed a “dowry” case against her husband and his entire family shortly after their marriage in 1998. Later, her family came up with a compensation demand of Rs one crore. Unable to bear the stress, Jaspreet’s father passed away in India, but neither Jaspreet nor his brothers were able to perform the last rites – as Interpol Red Corner Notices were pending against them. Jaspreet has been engaged in a labyrinthine process of litigation in Indian courts for the last eight years. Meanwhile, his wife has remarried in the US.
• Riyadh-based Iliyas Ahmed has a dowry case pending for his refusal to concede his wife Husna’s demand for bearing the entire expenses of her family. Husna’s family members in Bangalore have attacked his family home on several occasions and Illiyas has been unable to visit India.
• Shortly after Mandeep arrived back in Canada after his marriage, his wife Jasvinder deserted him after admitting that she had married him only for a visa. In accordance with the Canadian immigration laws, he provides financial support to his “vanished wife.”
These are samples of case studies collected with aims of presenting the converse side of the story of NRI marriages by ‘Rakshak’— an international organisation dedicated to elder abuse. ‘Rakshak’ works in close conjunction with 498a.org — leading international forum engaged in researching the impact of misuse of gender biased laws such as Section 498 A of the IPC.
The phenomenon of abandoned brides is one that has received huge media attention, but a new trend of “vanishing brides and abandoned grooms” has somehow escaped attention, said Dr Anupama Singh of ‘Rakshak.’
At a teleconferencing session on Thursday, several NRI men recounted stories of having been dumped by unscrupulous wives — who take advantage of gender-biased laws by filing false cases of domestic violence and dowry abuse to harass and extort money.
Statistics, Dr Singh said, speak for themselves: Against the number of 152 cases registered of “abandoned wives”, the number of cases of “abandoned grooms” is around 700. Also, the courts have declared 80 per cent men charged under Section 498-A innocent, she pointed out. Section 498-A of the IPC is a criminal law in which the wife and her family can charge any or all of the husband’s family for physical and mental cruelty.
KK, Well, certainly I am glad that you have not generalised this time. Yes, I did get the impression from your first comment that you had generalised…
but really when you ask that very complex question as to why women are not gettng the respect they deserve, its not a question I can answer. It is a very difficult one and I really need to read more about the subject.
In a way you are right, women should take things into their own hands…but I do not think men can abdicate responsibility.
And ofcourse I believe that the majority of men are NOT molesters! Its just a minority! But this minority is what creates the trouble. they head for the crowded places…anyway I do believe that these men need to be changed and counseled. I do not believe in lost cases…because we are talking of cheap molesters, not rapists.
You are talking about unscrupulous people which has nothing much to do with this post. But anyway I published it as you took so much trouble to write it.
Thanks for coming here KK. I may not agree with every point you have made but you have presented it well.
and hence i am a supporter of death penalties like here in saudi arabia. Behead some of those criminals in public and all the things will be alright in just 6 or 8 months…. also girls should not intermingle with men because there is a devil in man … all are beasts.
though i am a man but i know that devil is there always to put bad feelings in hearts of a man and hence it is my request to all my indian sisters to abstain from intermingling with men…. there should be no boy friends culture in our country great india.
Dear brother Ahmed, I assure you that the molesters are not boyfriends of the women. If anything, a boyfriend can be a protector. Just as some men are beasts, some men are divine. Just in case you are saying that women should not go out of the house at all, but should be imprisioned at home then I must write here that it is completely against our Indian culture.
Besides, did man not hunt in the deep dark jungle when the jungles were full of beasts? Did human beings sit at home and cower, hoping the beast didn’t exist?
In a similar manner, molesters can be punished and others can be tamed…cowering is not the answer. Yes, women should take precautions, like not going to dangerous places for example.
Aping the west and hence this……………..
this does not mean that i am favouring those drunken rowdies but i am saying the girls not to intermingle with men. There is no fun in celebrating new year. our new year celebrations should not end up like this. Why should we celebrate the new year…. all is a chance of drinking and molestation only by men…….women pls take care
Brother Ahmed, are you saying that western culture encourages men to molest women? I don’t agree at all. I think its our south asian culture which encourages that as oursociety is not open and pre marital sex is frowned upon. this increases frustration in men. the solution to this problem is in fact just the opposite of what you suggest. an open society and encouraging boys and girls to intermigle. once this happens, molestation will reduce as boys will find more girls they can have a good time with.
these incidents never happen in the west. please read my post on this blog about 23 ways to prevent molestation. it will explain to you how men here behave.
please get this straight. when girls are molested, its the fault of the men who do it, its not the fault of the women. women should go out with boys they like and these boys will protect them from the bad men.
I’m sorry that happnened to you, Indian girl - That must be one of the most painful experiences. I’m so glad you’re doing well, and that that is long past for you; it must have asked a lot of streght and courage from you.
Very often women are raped in the rich countryes, also. These things happen almost everywhere A LOT. Or at poor countryes, done by people from rich countryes, also. If you search well you can take the statiestieks from the internet. I’m also for fighting against it, of course. Maybe less often in being touched in public, yes.
Nita I apreciate your work. Thank you.
If you want to bring changes in India, then try it another way. The rich countryes are really not a good example at all. Yes I agree also: education is most defenetely the solution.
For some reason it is the science in which less energy and money is spent! Education is not what they are doing … not only learning technics and theories from books , science, mathematics.
So it is so funny, because when you say education, you’re thinking about something else. Because maybe for all cultures, earlier, education, that’s what it means, how to let somoene grow…the total human being. But certain countryes have forgotten that - and they call education, the school learning!
The problems of rape, pedophilie, molestation and abuse of women, is also in the West still in the beginning…
Yes, of course it is the fault of the men who do it, not the fault of the women.
How nice to be talking with people from so far away.
Regards
This note is to mention that just yesterday, some girls were molested on Marine Drive Mumbai in the crowds when our cricket team was returning from the airport.
This is the link:
They were molested very badly. Groups of men surrounded the girls and did whatever they could. This is a part and parcel of our society now and everyone should beware. The police do nothing and give stupid statements like these things did not happen at one time. They always happened in India and always will unless these offenders are put behind bars for at least 10 years. Harsh punishment for these molesters? I don’t think so.
Nita,
You choose a topic we can’t afford to ignore. What you say here occurs in all the major cities I’ve ever been to, and even in some small ones too.
They say you can judge the character of a person by how he behaves when alone, and I would add how he behaves when under the cover of a huge crowd.
PS I like your new template. I decided to switch to it as well. Very light and clean, easy to read.
Good it should be like this atleast some one shown how unsafe Mubai is. I have always been forced to accept by hooks & crooks that Mumbai is a safer place and I knew it was not, infact its a most unsafe place in India for girls.
Saurabh, This is molestation we are talking about, remember that. Not rape. When it comes to crowds, all cities in India will be about the same. Mumbai is actually slightly better than north indian cities. Thats the truth.
About safety for women, Mumbai is one of the safest metros in India. That is what people mean when they say Mumbai is safe…crimes like violence and rape are far less here as compared to say Delhi.
We forget, both men and women are made of same flesh and it is our belief that there is exitement in touching the others makes us feel so… mmm… May be we’ll evolve out of it… or… May be not….
The very fact that this article is your most popular shows that a lot of people actually clicked to see the pics..
I don’t buy it that so many clicked shocked by the news..
Anon, yes ofcourse. There is no doubt about it at all, people come to this post to get some kicks. In fact this was the reason that I almost thought of removing that Popular Posts widget from the sidebar…! - Nita.
Iam in no way condoning what happened to the girl. It is dreadful, girls are not safe in crowded places in India. I have slapped and yelled at some of them.
However, every society has its share of perverts in different guises …….as I have an American friend who was molested in the train in America. In America, I have seen high school boys molest as the girls giggle.. mostly the guys who are the “sport stars” get away with it. In fact a lot of it occurs under the cover of “dating”. The girls play along or do not realise it is wrong or do not know what to do. In an open society, their is pressure of dating and having a boy friend, so often girls allow themselves to be abused by their “boy friends”. As far as the statistics for that kind of a molestation go, it is mind boggling….
As for the solution in India, if some of these molesters are put behind bars as a detterent it should work. The surveilance cameras in trains and a support from the police, train guards, bus drivers, other sane people in the crowd could help spot the miscreants.
I am very suprised to learn that can be a problem in the spiritual India and to that degree. But when I think it through, it is probably not as supprising since it reminds me a perhaps somewhat parallel problem among Chinese people: gambling. Since I was a kid back in China, I heard once a while how gambling ruined a family. And as I am now living in the United States, I found Chinese people doing the same. A while ago, a coworker asked me why Chinese liked to gamble. I was unable to answer. And I have been totally helpless in locating its psychological root within Chinese culture, none of the traditions seems to encourage gambling.
So I can only guess: as a culture grows, it overpowers its people and becomes a tynany. And people’s natural humanity tries to escape from it. China’s society is about order and harmony, gambling is about randomness and chance, seems like a natural escape from over-order and over-harmony. And in the United States, with a surface freedom, the society is in fact very alienating and rigid (You may not believe, but Indians lived and worked in the United States long enough know that), and there are lots of crazy people! Many of them are not really crazy, they pretend to be so in order to have some interaction with you in order to escape from their loniness!! I myself have had times of such encounters. Other examples could include the rather “unhealthy” sex culture in UK ( I heard that from a movie, assuming it is true) and the “Kinkiness” in Japan’s society. If all these are indeed nature’s rebel against man-made culture, it may help to explain why they are so difficult to overcome and why they are usually non-beautiful.
But my theory seems over-simplfying even to me …
@guqin:
Welcome
You have definitely tried to uncover the core reason for an evil in society and you are the first one to do so. You are right, we need to look into the deep rooted causes for this aberrant behavior which is so much against the indegenous culture.
Actually in India we are an amorous people, and always have been. Traditionally, in India we had a fairly free erotic culture and sex was not considered dirty or evil…that came values brought by the invaders. We have unfortunately absorbed these values and our society has become a repressed one. There is no way that a boy and girl can meet and satisfy their normal human desires…to do so they have to hide their relationship, at least in most cases. Plus early marriages are not out, because of modern society. So all this leads to immense frustration where even young men of 25 have no chance to have a relationship with a woman. This leads to two things…a completely lack of understanding of women and their feelings and a tendency to see women as sex objects.
there are other complicated factors too like pornography, another import from the west. And then combine all these factors that the status of women in India is lower than that of men and has always been so and you get a dangerous combination…
I guess I have not addressed all the factors here as the issue is complicated.
One of my friend carries a pin with her. So every time such people try to brush against her body or hands ( while travelling on bus ) she wud just dig the pin right through his hand !!!!
She says many of them wont even utter a word and would just move away !
May be you gals should try this !
Nita- The post was sickening not because the subject it reported but that it reflected the sad and depressing reality for about 500 million girls, women living in India. Had it been some small country I could sigh in relief and hope the rest of us could bully that small society into civilization. But not here. No Exit.
I don’t want to say a lot after so many comments have already made some valid points and observations. But YOU HIT THE BULL’S EYE when you said that the things would have been much better if Indian society was more ”promiscuous”. I think the liberal, open-minded, tolerant, free are the phrases you should have used. It is a sad irony that conservative Indian parents build a conservative society that actually turns their own progeny into monsters (men) and victims (women).
Some Indian men seemed very offended by ”western” men and women being shocked at this post. If they do not like ”western” or liberal society that has equal freedom and dignity for both men and women then the other option is to turn India into some ultra orthodox society like Saudi Arabia. At least in that society women would not be molested, manhandled in public places by hoodlums. Besides, if theres still are some molesters in that society they will receive harsh punishments like getting stoned to death in public places or mutilation and dismemberment of body parts. This society sounds more logical and humane to me than the one that exists now in India.
emberglow, I agree with you whole-heartedly. there are a lot of bad elements in the society who are just waiting to molest.
I always say that how a woman dresses in a society speaks a lot about the attitude of the men and one is talking of the lowest common denominator. It’s really sad indictment on any society that unless a woman covers herself up she is not safe.
In any case in India all the men wear western clothes and the woman are ’supposed’ to wear Indian clothes! funnily the real indian clothes are more revealing!! a sari for instance reveals the midriff. but inspite of that anything ‘western’ is still not liked by a lot of people here.
I too feel that molesters should be severely punished!
Anyway, we can’t go the saudi arabia way because intrinsic to indian culture is eroticism, and love and our native clothes are quite revealing, specially in western and south india. so covering a woman is actually going against our very culture so it shouldn’t happen. these sick men should be punished! that’s the better solution. and also I feel as the status of women rises slowly things will improve.
Hi again Nita- I just wished to mention a few more things. Eroticism is intrinsic to any culture really, even the Muslim ones.
And there are countries and societies in the world where women can wear ”revealing” clothes and still be harassed, discriminated, molested etc. I digress but I must mention that I was reading about your influential Bollywood actress who was involved in some on stage kissing incident in India with Richard Gere and she went through hell. Even a rich and influential woman in India is bullied by the mobs, society, police, judiciary; everyone from hoodlums to highly educated people. That’s truly sad.
The real ”girl power” or women’s empowerment would be achieved when they’re completely the masters of their own fate, economically independent and free, can actually share and take part in political power (and processes) without the interference of any males in their life. This all collectively would be true freedom.
But of course, this will take some time, it seems.
You mentioned Shilpa Shetty. That issue has another angle to it. Shilpa is a celebrity and therefore there are people who latched on to that to gain publicity. If she was an ordinary woman people would have ignored it. So I would say that this happened to her because of her fame…but usually the rich here are protected. It’s the poor and the middle class
Indian woman who is harassed, molested etc. Partly because she uses crowded public transport, gets caught in crowds. Also the maximum number of women who are raped in India are poor. The culprits know that a rich and influential woman could get them into trouble.
Nita,
My heart breaks for the girls. I agree with you 100%. What those men do must be seen as a true violation. If the police had been violated, raped in the same way, I’m sure the perpetrators would be behind bars within the hour. It’s a matter of empathy and compassion, seeing the girls as whole human beings, not half-formed things populating the world.
@mariacristina:
Thanks Christine for your thoughts on this. you are right, that empathy is lacking totally. We in India are still at a stage where women are seen as sex objects by the lowest common denominator. the fact that women have a heart, a soul and a brain is secondary.
similar kind of thing happens here In M.G. Road, Bangalore on each new year eve.
I thought Mumbai is safe! Now, I will think twice before going to any such events with family..
Mumbai is quite safe, safer than most Indian cities. Actually what I wrote applies to most places in India. - Nita.
Moral fabric of the nation has been shattered because of masses shifting out of their ancestral places and who have become faceless to do such things.
I think some where we are also responsible for such molestation.On the 31st December many are in drunken condition so we should not wear such dresses which will attract others to you. & the people will do rubbish things because they were not in their proper mental condition.
Sapna, it is best not to go to such places. Women even in sarees and Indian types of dresses are felt up and molested on these occasions. It’s the cheap people in the crowds who do these type of things, and a piece of cloth doesn’t stop them. They do it because they are anonymous and they get the opportunity. - Nita.
I AM AGREE TO YOU,BUT DRESS CODE IS AN IMPORTNT FACTOR BEHIND MOLESTATION.MOLESTATION CAN BE DONE ANY WHERE EVEN AT YOUR DOOR.MOLESTATION CAN BE STOPPED ONLY WHEN MEN START GIVING RESPECT TO WOMENS IN ANY FACE,AT ANY COST
Sapna, if that was the case then there should be the maximum molestation in western countries…right?? But molestation there is very rare. Men there are used to seeing women like that and also sexual frustration is not common.
The sickness is in the mind of the perpretrator, not in the victim’s dress code. the answer is that more women should dress scantily so that men get used to it. Tthe human body is not something to be ashamed of and those who say that it is to be hidden are against Indian culture because our Hindu culture says the female form is beautiful and not to be hidden away. Please read up on this…have you seen the carvings on our temples?
At the same time I say that one has to be careful…because when goes to a criminally infested or dangerous area, does one show one’s jewellery? No!!
I think the common (wo)man also plays her part in the things that happen nowadays. Not trying to justify it and I also feel ashamed for it but occasionally, I find it difficult to stop myself stealing a peak at the plunging necklines and innerwear shows. If the policy is “if you have it flaunt it!” you’ll also find people with “If you see it, paw it!”
As for your comparison with the western world, if you look at the adultry, divorce and teenage pregnancy numbers from there, I am sure you’ll agree that we are doing much better.
The temple carvings were with a purpose dear. Today, our bunch of illiterate politicians are protesting against sex education in schools under the culture banner - the temple carvings you mention were text books for the same subject. Also ask yourself - do you find it in every monument or temple?
Agreed that the female form is the ultimate creation of god - but society & social rules differ to that. If everyone insists on dressing scantily, we’ll only end up in stone age!!
On the other hand, I find Indian dresses (and beauties) much more intoxicating because the dresses reaveal enough to kindle the imagination of the beholder.
Raman, you say:
//if you look at the adultry, divorce and teenage pregnancy numbers from there, I am sure you’ll agree that we are doing much better.//
All human beings are similar in their sex urges. Here we have child marriage. So if you look at underage pregnancy, we beat the west anyday! Worse, because the state is not bothered. As for adultery, you think it’s less in India? I am amazed!! It is such an astounding statement you made…the problem is that here it’s all hidden! The few good guys believe it doesn’t exist, but it’s everywhere. It’s much more rampant here, because we don’t divorce! And the reason Indians don’t divorce is not because they are happy, not always. You can read about it (and others’ comments) here.
And well, if you say the erotic paintings are text books in full public view, that says something about our lack of hypocrisy and acceptance that sex is a normal thing.
And if men here cannot resist staring at a scantily clad woman, it’s natural. They are not used to it and you have actually supported my point. And no, I do not think we will end up in the stone age if people here dress according to the weather. At least I don’t see the west in the stone age today.
And frankly if a man ‘paws’ as you put it, I think it’s disgusting and there is no excuse for it. All men do not do that.
I accept there absolutely is no excuse for pawing - but when you call the instinct natural, why critisize the action?
I will choose to disagree with you on the similarity of sex urges part - i believe the urge varies with exposure after a certain level.
Child Marriage, interestingly, is a much misunderstood concept. My paternal grandparents were 14 & 8 when they got married and my grandmother had her first chile probably by 12. She led a hale & hearty life till the age of 72 (when she passed away without any medical complications whatsoever) and gave birth to a further 8 children. All these children remember being very close to their mother and remembering her more as friend than a mother. When they talk about the camaradrie my grandma shared with my grandpa, we often have tears swelling in our eyes. She knew his every movement, every reaction & every thought. They hardly disagreed, leave alone fighting. Both were inseperable for the rest of their lives.
I think that is an astounding achivement (to live together for 50+ years without any misunderstandings) compared to what is happening today. Seriously, i have seen couple fight over the restaurant name where they want to have their dinner!
The problem was never with child marriage - in fact it was a blessing as the couple had more time to devote to each other, play & study with each other & grow with each other. I would blame the quality & quantity of food that most children eat these days to most of the issues related to child birth. I am sure child marriage numbers in India is not high enough to beat the west’s teenage prgnancies - i’ll look for numbers, if that’s what will convince you. I am not talking about the child abuse part though.
Indian adultry, though hidden majorly is much less than the west. In fact, some of the “developed” nations and “broad-minded”/”forward minded” thinkers have gone on record to say that “no strings attached sex” may well be a scale to measure the development of a civilization. I am sure you don’t agree with it since as an Indian, you would have been taught about certain issues & you will have your own ethics & morality. Even if it is hidden, I do not mind as long as it isn’t as rampant & enticing as in the west. I remember an aunt from US telling me that mom had to secretly drop the pill in their teenage daughters’ milk so as to avoid an unwarranted preganancy.
I read the replies to your post on divorces and I accept the fact that different people would have different opinions on the same and no opinion may be right or wrong. There may have been issues in marriage but divorce (from what I have observed & learnt in the 25 years of my brief existance) is the last resort. I mean I haven’t heard of any one in India apply for divorce on the grounds that “the sex isn’t interesting anymore” or “he’s not shifting to a home closer to my office”. Predominantly, divorce reason is physical abuse.
I said paintings & sculptures are textbooks which you have chosen to accept - you have clearly ignored when I mentioned the fact that not all the temples/monumnets/structures in India are “sexually inclined”. Which, in other words, means not every text book needs to be a playboy. It was clearly accepted that sex was a natural thing and in fact, to a large extent spirituality has also been attached to the same. However, what is meant to be discussed in hushed tones must be kept that way - shouting from roof tops will never solve the purpose.
Dressing according to the weather is definitely an intersting concept since the saree has internationally been acknowledge to be both airy & seductive. May be there is a messgae there. Instead people choose to wear jeans (a cloth of nature that just doesn’t fit the logic in a tropical country like India) and then wear a halter top because it is too hot!
West’s stone age may not be the same as the stone age as in the past - but given the number of school firings, divorce rates, muggings, war, unemployment, racism & poverty, it is just a different type of stone age. Today, I am really proud of the fact that if my sister was misbehaved with in a best bus, I can count on the support 10 people - i am not sure I can say the same for the “tube of NY”
A lot of people associate freedom to clothes - the idea is to wear anything not nothing I hope.
Raman I have never said that the instinct to paw is natural, I said it’s disgusting and sick and shows a criminal type of mind. I said the desire to look is natural and any decent man will know it’s wrong to force himself on anybody.
About your other points I cannot say I agree with you…but then yours is a different viewpoint and ofcourse everyone is entitled to their own views. I wish I could answer your points in detail, but the problem is that my pc is not working and am writing from a borrowed computer. Also, I am in a holiday mood. Happy New Year!
My dear, you got me all wrong - I know you did not say pawing is natural - you said it is natural for men to stare at scantily clad women - i am taking it a bit ahead and I am saying, because they are not used to the sight, they end up using their hands. It, by no means is justified, correct or even remotely human - but understand that the action is natural. The ability and the action of controlling one’s natural instinct may not be common.
I am sorry for your PC and hope it’ll work gr8 in 2008 - you are doing stellar work and the PC shouldn’t be standing in the way. My hearfelt wishes to you & your family too. May this new year bring peace, happiness & prosperity.
Hope you found some truth in my words.
Hav fun!!!
Couldn’t resist posting a comment. I was witness to lewd behaviour in bangalore brigade road today(new year’s eve). It was a distressing sight to say the least. I didn’t expect this in my city. I’m ashamed that people have the definition of celebration as molestation. I wish I had a cam to capture it all. Distressing. It will take me