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Give some credit to Maharashtra

November 5, 2008

After Raj Thackeray violently hijacked the cause of the Marathi people, a lot has been written for and against him. Some of what I read about him has amused me and some has amazed me. But what never fails to annoy me is when those who are against Raj Thackeray’s politics deride Maharashtra. They mouth platitudes about unity and being Indian, but are quick to talk against people of another region. I think Raj T brings out their hatred for other communities otherwise why should they attack Maharashtra state and Maharashtrians just because some right wing politician plays at divisive politics? Its reminds me of what happens when there is a terrorist attack…those who are prejudiced against Muslims immediately start to deride Islam and Muslims.

That the reason for this post. This is not about Raj T’s politics and if anyone wants to know my views on that can read this post. This post is about Maharashtra. I have been blogging for over two years but this is the first time I am writing about some of the achievements of my own state. Considering the atmosphere today in the country today I think I need to do it for all those who think that Maharashtra doesn’t deserve what it has achieved, or those who think that Maharashtrians as a race are parochial.

Okay, lets look at some facts.

There are reasons why Maharashtra is a developed state today (although Modi’s Gujarat has long overtaken it). Most of the reasons are historical because the development in Maharashtra started a long time ago, even before it was visible in better infrastructure and greater industrialisation. The development of Maharashtra began with its people as far back as the 19th century.

Social reform movement
The social reform movement in Maharashtra has made Maharashtra what it is today. Here is a list of some of the great leaders:

  • Balshastri Jambhekar (1812-1846) who fought for women’s rights
  • Gopal Hari Deshmukh (1823-1892) who fought against orthodox Brahmans who opposed social and religious reforms
  • Jotirao Govindrao Phule (1827-1890) and Chhatrapati Shahu Maharaj of Kolhapur (1874-1922)who fought against the caste system, and encouraged women of the lower castes to get educated
  • Ramakrishna Gopal Bhandarkar (1837-1925) and Justice Ranade (1842-1901) who were founder members of the Prarthana Samaj, which worked for social and religious reform
  • Gopal Ganesh Agarkar (1856-1895) who also worked for social reform
  • Dhondo Keshav Karve (1858-1962)and Bhaurao Patil who devoted their lives to the cause of women’s education
  • Pandita Ramabai (1858-1922) who founded the Sharada Sadan in 1890 to help upper-class widows
  • Mahatma Jyotirao Phule who founded Satyashodhak Samaj
  • Vitthal Ramji Shinde (1873-1944), fought for the eradication of untouchability through his Depressed Classes Mission
  • Karmaveer Bhaurao Patil (1887-1959) who developed the Rayat Shikshan Sanstha
  • Dr. Panjabrao Deshmukh, Tarabai Modak in Vidarbha and Anutai Wagh in the Adivasi areas who worked for social reform.
  • Dr Shivaji Patwardhan and Baba Amte served the poor
  • Vijay Merchant fought for the physically handicapped
  • Vinoba Bhave gave up his life for Sarvodaya.
  • And ofcourse there was Dr. Bhimrao Ramji Ambedkar (1891-1956), the main architect of the Indian Constitution and the creator of a social and political awareness among the Scheduled Castes of India. A hero revered by all in India today.
  • Anna Hazare (added later), a social activist whose special achievement was his contribution to the development of Ralegan Siddhi, a village in Ahmednagar district in Maharashtra, India and establishing it as a model village, for which he was awarded the Padma Bhushan by Govt. of India, in 1992.

These leaders formed the backbone of the social reform movement but they did not arise out of nowhere. They drew their inspiration from saints like Dnyaneshwar, Eknath, Chakradhar, and Tukaram as well as kings like Shivaji.

It is interesting to note that while these reform movements were going on, there was already a minority of educated upper castes who had had a privileged “western” education. Most of these people turned to the professions like medicine and engineering or joined the services. This too contributed to the development of the state. In fact educated people from Maharashtra started to migrate to the west in the early sixties due to lack of job opportunities here. Not many Maharashtrians were good at business.

The social reform movement resulted in the availability of skilled workers and managers for industries.

Literacy Rate and Women’s Empowerment
The literacy rate of the state according to the 2001 census 76.88 per cent, well above the national average of 64.84 percent. Literacy rate of women in Maharashtra is the second highest of all the states. It is also above the national average. As per the Census, 2001, Maharashtra the second highest literacy rate for women (68 per cent), after Kerala (88 per cent.) One of the reasons for this is that within 15 years of the introduction of the State government-sponsored Savitribai Phule Foster Parent Scheme (an effort of the State government, school authorities, teachers and citizens) which developed, promoted and financially supported girls’ education in schools run by village councils, tehsil councils, district councils and municipal corporations in Maharashtra, millions of girls from the marginalised sections completed their formal education. Education for girls up till the tenth grade is free in state board schools.

No people can rise unless the women are educated.  The women add to the workforce and in turn educate their sons and daughters.

Another example of the upliftment of Maharashtrian women has been the entry of women into priesthood in Maharashtra. There are hundreds of women priests in Pune, a city known for being a leader in women’s education, widow re-marriage and family planning. In fact Pune-based Shankar Seva Samiti (SSS) has trained, through its one-year course, over 7,000 women priests from all castes. Another Pune-based organisation, the Jnana Prabodhini (JP), has also trained women and today there are more women priests in Pune that male ones!

Property rights
Maharashtra may not have been the pioneer state to give daughters the same property rights as sons (Andhra Pradesh was the first, followed by Tamil Nadu), it was still one of the first, along with Karnataka. The state did this before the central legislation (The Hindu Succession (Amendment) Act, 2005) made it compulsory for all states.

Law and Order
This has deteriorated of late, but by and large Maharashtra has been a fairly peaceful state as compared to many although communal tensions have been rising since the nineties. What is more important is that industrialists feel safe setting up industries here. They do not fear lynching, kidnapping of their children, or political parties sabotaging their works. Polling in this state is also largely peaceful and fair.

Infrastructure and political climate conducive to industrialisation
Maharashtra has had a good infrastructure as compared to many states even though it has deteriorated now. Otherwise the industries wouldn’t have come here, not private industry. Politicians have been wooing industrialists for a long time now. No one has forced industrialists to set up here. They came because they found the skilled workforce they needed, friendly government policies, and a social environment in Mumbai where they were free to speak their language and practice their culture.

Film Industry
Film-makers arrived in Mumbai and set up their industry here not because Mumbai was the financial capital, but because the infrastructure was already available here. The Mumbai film industry was flagged off by the Marathi one.

The first full length film, Pundalik, was made by a Maharashtrian NG Chitre alongwith R.G. Torney.  In 1913 the first feature film, Raja Harishchandra, was made by another Maharashtrian, Dadasaheb Phalke, who is known as the father of Indian Cinema. The Dadasaheb Phalke Award is considered the highest award in Indian Cinema and awarded for lifetime achievement in Cinema.

In the nascent years of the Indian film industry there were many Maharashtrian actors and actresses in the industry, at a time when not many girls from other communities dared venture into the field. Right from Durga Khote, Nutan, Shobana Samarth to singer/actor, Baburao Pendharkar.

What I am saying is: give Maharashtra some credit for giving birth to the Indian film industry. It didn’t happen by chance. And Bollywood came to Mumbai because the infrastructure was here, the actors, the technicians, the people, they were here. If later Marathi cinema started to die there are many reasons for it,  but that is beyond the scope of this post.

No one forced industrialists and filmmakers to set up house here. They came because the infrastructure was ready, the people were friendly, accommodating and welcoming. The average Maharashtrians has never had too much pride in his language and he welcomed Hindi with open arms. Started right after Independence when Maharashtra gave up its original Modi script in favour of Devanagiri. If there is one people who have fallen hard for the rhetoric that Hindi unites the country, it is the Maharashtrians. Yes, today there is a backlash, but from a right wing organisation.

Is the average poor and lower middle class Maharashtrian wrong if he resents those who work for lower wages?
A lot of talk is being bandied about on the fact that migrant workers from Bihar and Uttar Pradesh who come to Mumbai are working for lower wages. After all its all about competition and if the locals can’t compete just too bad. They have no right to feel angry, they should start singing jana gana mana!! It’s not so simple and for more details you can read my post here.

Let me give you both sides and you be the judge. On one hand you have the average Maharashtrian worker who pays rent or is paying back a loan for his one room tenement, wants to put his children into an English medium school, dreams of them going to college and also has a wife who wants to be in the workforce because he wants a double income to achieve his dreams. He is a man who has electricity bills and water bills to pay and aspires to own a two-wheeler one day. How is this man to compete with a migrant who is living on a pavement? A man who has no expenses except paying for his daily bread? A man whose family may not even be living with him? The man on the pavement is not wrong either. He needs the job and will work at a lower salary, any salary, and is open to being exploited by industry.

In my opinion neither of these two men are wrong. They are not to blame. It is the companies who are wrong. They need to pay decent living wages to their workforce, ensure that their workers live a decent life. Then you can take the best worker for the job, whatever his antecedents. But if as a company owner you are paying your worker less than a living wage, then shame on you. You cannot make profits at the expense of human misery.

I think I have written enough. Have probably left out a lot of things and if my post sounded as if I was trying to prop up Maharashtra, that was not the intention. This is a post written in defense. And I am aware that Maharashtra has lost its status as the most industrialised state, and I am aware that Maharashtra has neglected its agriculture. That people in this state are starving too, farmers have committed suicide, and  that the income gap is increasing, that there is malnutrition, that the law and order situation seems to be deteriorating…but I cannot cover all aspects here.

Life goes in a cycle. And Maharashtra will continue its downturn unless we get better leaders. I am not talking parties here, but individuals. Today corrupt individuals are ruining Maharashtra. And lawless individuals like Raj T are exploiting the sentiments of the common people. And equally souless politicians from Bihar who instead of developing their state are using Raj T as a means to garner more votes. And the media sensationalises all these things for TRP’s, inciting people from other states. Shame on them all.

Related Reading: The British and the Americans don’t like Marathi “chauvinism”
The Language Issue in India (2000 comments on this article)

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169 Comments leave one →
  1. Abhilash Shastry permalink
    November 8, 2008 11:20 pm

    “Do you in the company of white people tell them how shitty America is and how much you prefer your homeland? And you Vivek, I know you are not living in your home state. Do you tell the local people around you how shitty their city is and that you are dying to go back to your own place?”

    I don’t use the word ‘shitty’ either in front of white men or brown. This is like creating a straw man argument. But yes, people from not just Mumbai or Delhi but even from Congo and Kabul compare their native places favorably and even in front of their white friends.

    I see, well I guess I think its offensive, even if you don’t. The way I have been brought up, I never denigrate a person’s native place in front of them and I don’t have much regard for those who do. Because you will see from my previous comments, that this argument is about deningrating another person’s native place to their face, which is deplorable. I guess our views differ on this so let us just agree to disagree. – Nita.

  2. Vivek Khadpekar permalink
    November 9, 2008 5:44 am

    @ Abhilash Shastry:

    I assume I am not the addressee of your last comment (November 8, 11:20 pm — I have to specify because on this particular post each and every one of my comments except the first is going into moderation, so I don’t know when this one will actually show up!).

    I think it is quite reasonable for someone to feel “There’s no place like Home Sweet Home”. But to get that point across, it not necessary to run down the place one is comparing it with; especially not when one is oneself part of the reason for making that place “shitty”.

    And when it comes to the local language and culture, I agree with the sentiment expressed by someone here — if your hatred for it is so intense that it compels you to treat the locals like dirt, then you’d bloody well go back to where you came from.

  3. Dnyanesh permalink
    November 9, 2008 6:55 am

    I think people who blame Maharashtrains as parochial haven’t proved that they are more open than our society.
    You visit your friends place. You like his house because it is neat, full of all resources. Your friend welcomes you with open arms. You want to stay at his house. He says yes. And after some days you start saying that this is our house. Your friend agrees to that as well. And now, you are saying that he is parochial, as he does not want to accomodate 10, 000 people from your village. Come on! You now even want to go further and say that his house is dharmashala (Union Territory) ? Changale pang phedatay! Arrogance at its best.

  4. Vivek Khadpekar permalink
    November 9, 2008 9:08 am

    @ Dnyanesh:

    There is an old Marathi proverb that neatly sums up what you are saying: bhataalaa dilee osaree ni bhat haatpaay pasari

  5. Sharad permalink
    November 9, 2008 9:30 am

    “Is the average poor and lower middle class Maharashtrian wrong if he resents those who work for lower wages?”

    My argument was about this question. So I will reframe the question “Will the average poor and lower middle class Mumbaikar resent those who work for lower wages even if they are from other parts of MH?”

    I agree media might be denigrating the Maharastrians but then they are equating what Raj T stands for with that what Maharastrians thinks. You will say most of Maharastraians do not support him, but I have not seen many opposing him.

    Regarding the discussion “People, even knowing I am Maharashtrian curse everything about Mumbai, right from the humidity, climate, packed trains, crowds, dirt and they have nothing good to say about Mumbai! ……….”
    I don’t think it is wrong if someone complains about packed trains humidity etc. I ask do you love the humidity and packed trains. Yes if someone deride Maharastrains or their culture or customs then they are wrong. But I can’t find anything wrong if someone talks about general problems which locals have got accustomed to . Won’t a guy from Pune feel cold if he goes to UP or HP. And if he says the Pune felt better I won’t be offended.

    Secondly, even if you had some bad experiences you can’t judge the whole community. I have nothing against Maharstrains even after the following incidents:
    1. Nagpur: On the first day of college a teacher ask who are MH and non-MHs. There after all the non-MH guys got average marks irrespective of what they write in exam (girls were an exception :))
    2. Nagpur: Another teacher starts asking questions in Marathi in my Viva
    3. Nagpur: We 2-3 guys were talking loudly at a tapri. A policeman comes, starts abusing us and says go back to your places, you are destroying the culture here etc etc.
    4. Pune: In my previous company a very senior guy(PhD and only a step away from VP) says “According to me all Maharastrians are uncivilized’.

    I had some more in Pune and Mumbai. Still I haven’t formed any -ve opinion of Maharstrains, because I understand people in general and know how they are going to react in some conditions. Chauvinism and jingoism is there throughout India, it is just that who gets the focus. This time it is Maharastra. If, lets say after 20-30 years UP is developed and the migration flow is reversed we will see a Raj T there also demanding similar things and we again will be discussing same things just with roles reversed.

    One needs to differentiate between cultural identity and a feeling of exclusiveness which breeds superiority and the kind of comments which I have mentioned above. Cultural identity, on the other hand , is positive force.

    Sharad, Generally I do agree with your ideas, but I think you should not assume things about me. You are new here and probably that is why you think I am like some people you have met. But as people who read my blog know, I never denigrate any community nor do I draw conclusions based on that, so please do not say those things to me. Also, I have nothing against general complaints, I have made that clear, I have problems with racists comments. Even that I have made clear and I am tired of repeating myself. I sincerely request commentators (not just you) not to waste my time accusing me of things I have not said, please read my comment policy. It is easy to twist anything anyone says and then proceed to lecture that person. I have no time for this and more of such lectures based on twisting my words will not be published. Also, while I do sympathise for any racism you have encountered, if you have not seen many Maharashtrians opposing Raj T, I have nothing to say. Thanks for giving your views. – Nita.

  6. Abhilash Shastry permalink
    November 9, 2008 5:18 pm

    @Nita:

    We all have our views colored by our personal experiences. I have spent a better part of my life as a migrant – first in the US and then as a Tamil in Delhi. So naturally I look at the issue with a migrant’s eye. I feel that a migrant worker (esp. in India) is the most vulnerable section of the society. Compared to any migrant worker, a local person is already in a privileged position and contrary to what people on this forum are claiming, more generally it is the local person who is often insensitive to the vulnerability of the migrant. Many commentators here are quick to generalize about the arrogance of migrants from some anecdotal evidence, however, they are not willing to see that a migrant is on the receiving end of such things almost every day. Chauvinistic hatred against a migrant is part of his daily existence, which he takes for granted. Asking why doesn’t a migrant then go back to his native place is one of the most insensitive remarks. Not everyone has a choice of livelihood. People lucky enough to be born in and around a big commercial city rarely realize this.

    Coming back to my Delhi experience, after spending a decade here I can speak and understand Hindi quite well, however I still prefer to use English in shops and malls and restaurants. Why? Not because of any migrant conspiracy to denigrate Hindi, but simply because in Delhi, English is better respected than Hindi esp. in well to do shops and establishments. Now who is responsible for this? Migrants? Fortunately in Delhi most of migration is from near by states which all happen to be Hindi speaking, so their is no easily identifiable ‘enemy’ to put the blame on.

    Abhilash Shastry, I don’t agree with you at all. If a person is rude and arrogant to the local person (saying that the place is shitty etc as I mentioned in my previous comment) without provocation you are saying it is not human to wish that person to go back! And that too I have not said that it should be said on anyone’s face. I have no idea what you faced as a migrant in Delhi or anywhere else, but I refute that migrants to Mumbai face daily harassment. I am not talking about what has happened in the last year with MNS inciting people, but before that, migrants mostly lived peacefully here. I know this because I live here. Everyone knows that MNS has changed the atmosphere here. So I strongly refute your statement about Mumbai and we are talking about Mumbai here. I repeat, Mumbai has always welcomed migrants and been friendly to them. Please do not generalise about Mumbai by your experiences in Delhi. Also please do not continue arguing about what a person should feel after being insulted by another, because everyone reacts differently. Yes if someone tells me my native place is shitty, and that too without provocation I will wish them to go back. Get me? There may be mother theresas around but I am not one. So lets stop this futile argument. I know your views now and you know mine. I said clearly that we shall agree to disagree. Thanks. – Nita.

  7. Manjul Sinha permalink
    November 9, 2008 9:05 pm

    I have been watching this debate with interest and the fact that two sides are unable to reach any common ground does not surprise me at all. As someone who is coming from Bihar, I do not know if my voice carries any weight on this forum, but let me try.

    First of all it is wrong to say that prior to MNS, migrants did not face any harassment in Mumbai. Word “Bihari” is used as a word of abuse everywhere in India (even in neighboring UP) and I did not find Mumbai or Maharashtra any different in this. Some people will claim that calling someone from “Bihar” as Bihari is not harassment. I disagree. I did not have any choice in getting born at a particular place and if my place of birth is used as a term of abuse I find it harassment.

    I understand that many people here will jump on me with righteous indignation exhorting me on how I should have put pressure on my politicians to improve things in Bihar so that “Bihari” is not used a word of “abuse”. The argument may be theoretically correct. However, as an ordinary person earning my livelihood, I do not know how much leverage I have in this. No one likes his place to be backward and in any case I believe I devote more than average time in community affairs than many others here. Unfortunately, it does not insulate me from the stigma of being born in Bihar.

    Secondly, I find people who are not at the receiving end issuing certificates that there is no harassment in their city a bit meaningless. We can all pat our backs smugly on how liberal we are. Many Hindus would like to claim that there is no religious discrimination in India: ask Muslims. Upper castes would like to claim that there is no discrimination in their area against dalits: ask dalits. Maharashtrians on this forum would like to claim that there is no harassment to Bihari-s in Mumbai: ask Bihari-s.

    You will be surprised how many Bihari-s (esp. professionals) in Mumbai actually hide their origin and claim that they are from Delhi even though they are from Bihar. And it happened much before MNS came into picture. Why do you think they do it they did not face any overt or subvert harassment on account of coming from Bihar?

    Thanks

    I am sorry to hear about your being denigrated for being a Bihari, but then I guess you can understand very well what it feels like to be criticized for being a Maharashtrian. Yes I agree with you, mine was perhaps a sweeping statement and you are right, Biharis do face some sort of prejudice in all parts of the country, and I am sure in Mumbai as well. I hope this attitude changes very soon. Each individual is different and I detest any kind of stereotypes based on people’s regions. I have suffered this too often, for being a woman, for being from a liberal western background, for lately, for being Maharashtrian. Thank you for sharing your opinion Manjul and welcome to my blog. – Nita.

  8. Dnyanesh permalink
    November 10, 2008 11:09 am

    I also feel sorry for Biharis. Are Bihar helpless? Do they want Center to rule so things will improve? Can they not elect better leaders? What do they expect from their leaders? Do they think that Maharashtrians also have right to protest against this migration and blaming? Leaders from Bihar are ahead in blaming Maharashtra as Parochial when we are welcoming people from every corner of India. They were the first to demand president’s rule in Maharashtra when law and order here is perhaps the best in the country.

  9. November 10, 2008 11:18 am

    there is an interesting incident happened in Karnal haryana

    A Maharashtrian family was threatened by some antisocial elements but Now the local people have come in support of that family, and they decided not to leave Karnal…..and i felt good that karnal happen to be the native of my paternal family

    Hope someday it happens in Mumbai too..

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/Marathi_couple_wont_leave_Haryana/articleshow/3693021.cms

  10. sangeeta permalink
    November 10, 2008 11:29 am

    Dynanesh – Agree with you.I really don’t understand the idea of forming states on Linguistic basis,if the government can’t stand for the legitimate concerns of its people.Everyone seems to be talking of violence in Maharashtra,and how we are a rouge state blah blah.. but no one seems to be talking of the genuine concerns of the Maharashtrians.

  11. Dnyanesh permalink
    November 10, 2008 12:43 pm

    @Vivek Mittal, Its good that your native people are helping people who need help.
    I did not get last line from your comment.
    “Hope someday it happens in Mumbai too..”

    In case you don’t know, Maharashtrians have been helping outsiders for years. Recently, one of Marathi doctors died in Bihar while helping flood victims. Poor Maharashtrians have sent lakhs to help flood victims. We have thousands of such examples. You may not know this if you are reading ndtv or such partial and so called national media. They show only one side.
    Is North Indian media impartial and responsible enough to publish about goodness of Maharashtrians? Actually, Govt. of Maharashtra should sue all prominent northern media houses for spreading venom about Maharashtrians.

  12. November 10, 2008 1:30 pm

    @Dnyanesh

    i agree maharashtrians are as kind as anyone, and helped migrants…But what i was talking about that particularly in Mumbai, local maharashtrians have not come in support of suffering migrants..

    Also not a single forum, group of people, even individual etc who are maharashtrians have come against Raj T

  13. Dnyanesh permalink
    November 10, 2008 2:24 pm

    Again, you are referring to your one sided northern media. Come to Mumbai and see. If Marathis are really kicking people out of Mumbai then why trains are still bringing people here? You should see trains only taking people out of our cities.

    You can refer to the same forum. Nita is criticizing raj T. Many Maharashtrians are also criticizing Raj T though his questions are valid.

    Is anybody from northern media criticizing Lalu, Paswan for their failures? NO. They are not ashamed of their deeds. They are even playing politics over deads. BTW Raj T is now visiting police station every day. Can law enforcement machinary in the Northern states force politician do like that?

  14. sangeeta permalink
    November 11, 2008 12:33 am

    Vivek Mittal,

    One isolated incident carried out by goons doesn’t mean that the migrants are suffering.Please don’t get carried away by false and exaggerated propagation carried out by the media.Pls come and do some reality check.I think the migrants are more safe in Mumbai then say in Bihar or Delhi!

  15. November 11, 2008 9:32 am

    @ sangeeta

    plz come to Delhi, here nobody will bother about your native place….I’m not sure what do you mean by “isolated case”, also i dont understand when Nita says “only lower class maharashtrians support MNS”….Does that make killing of migrants any lesser issue

  16. Dnyanesh permalink
    November 11, 2008 10:18 am

    I agree with Vivek Mittal. Delhi is Union Territory so nobody cares about your native place. It should be like that. Mumbai is capital of Maharashtra as accepted by all Indians. It is the most cosmopolitan city in India and will remain like that. Neither killing of migrant any lesser issue nor mass migration of people from Bihar, UP. Migrants are being killed in other parts of India as well. We should look at that too. What about threats issued to Maharashtrians in your native place. Can we consider that as isolated case too or threat to Marathi IAS office in Bihar?

  17. Manjul Sinha permalink
    November 11, 2008 5:30 pm

    Dnyanesh:

    It only proves our unity in diversity. We are Indians first and therefore we behave in same obnoxious manner everywhere in India.

    Anyway this Thackeray IAS lady in Bihar has been identified as a Marathi for the first and probably the last time. Biharis are not guilty of provincialism. Caste rules the roost here. Probably many Marathis would not know that “Thackeray” surname belongs to Kayastha caste. In Bihar she will always be looked as a Kayastha, not a Marathi.

    It does not take much time to go down the slippery slope. At the time of independence Bihar used to be one of the better administered states. Where is it now? Rest assured that if Bihari style street politics starts getting popular support in Maharshtra, it will not take long to find that slippery slope.

  18. sangeeta permalink
    November 12, 2008 12:54 am

    Vivek Mittal,

    Maybe you don’t know much about Mumbai then.Its has been one of the most cosmopolitan and safe city.Locals are protesting now and things did go out of control but that too due to the legitimate issues they have.By “safety”in Delhi,I meant general safety,not just related to migrant.Mumbai will always be top most on the safety front .
    As Dynanesh said Mumbai is not a union territory,its the capital of Maharashtra .People migrating to Delhi, say from Maharashtra for good will always speak in Hindi.Unlike those coming to Maharashtra,who will impose Hindi showing downright arrogance to learn Marathi and thats the difference between migrants.

    I know one thing for sure that MNS is getting a lot of support more with ‘lower class” because they are the most vulnerable ,but even with the higher class because the points put forward by are legitimate.They will oppose the way its been done.

  19. Dnyanesh permalink
    November 12, 2008 7:38 am

    @Manjul

    Yes, We all are Indian first. As we celebrate our unity in our diversity we should also respect local culture. Understand that though we are one country each state is like a country which has its own culture. We must make sure that all regions are developed so there won’t be any mass migration. This would help maintain balance.

    I am not sure if that attack was on Kayasthas. I haven’t read any other incidents in northern news papers as well. I read that it was because she is Marathi and has same name as Raj/Balasaheb. This could be a reaction to what happened in Mumbai.

    I definitely agree with you on the last point you mentioned. We hope that things won’t go in that direction. As mentioned before, this issue of migration needs serious discussion in the parliament. This is not a war between Maharashtra and Bihar. Both states have some issues. Center is responsible for maintaining balance. It can not simply blame one state as done by PM. All heavyweights must think about future of this country keeping party politics aside. They need to understand short term and long term effect NOT for political gain. They must come up with short term, long term solutions. If serious efforts are not made then it will not take much time ‘to go down to slippery slope’

  20. November 12, 2008 9:57 am

    Sangeeta

    \\ its the capital of Maharashtra \\

    This is the root cause of the problem…Seeing Mumbai as the capital of Maharashtra…Ok i dont have any prob with that, But if you want to see Mumbai only as capital of maharashtra,Then the things which Mumbai is given being the commercial capital of India have to be removed..Like stock Exchange, SEBI, SBI, RBI, and numerious other head offices of Govt Insurance companies and financial institutions. Remove all the private industries setup by “outsiders” and remove Bollywood too.

    Then Mumbai will become real maharashtrian city

    Vivek, I can’t help smiling at what you say. No has forced these people to come here. The pvt. industries have come on their own for their own convenience! If they could be better off anywhere else, they would go. At one time many cos. where headquartered in Kolkatta, but slowly they all came to Mumbai. Believe me, if they find Mumbai hostile, they will all leave, one by one. No one can stop them, not one. That is why I am against this campaign by Raj T. Because if he continues then industry will flee! What we need to do is settle at a compromise which you yourself have said in one of your comments about the need to hire employees at the lower levels from locals. Because whether anyone likes it or not Mumbai is not a union territory, it is the capital of MH, and will remain so. There needs to be compromise on both sides, arrived at in a peaceful manner through talks. – Nita.

  21. November 12, 2008 10:07 am

    @ Dhyanesh

    I 100% agree with your comment at 7:38 am above

    Of course migration to one direction should be controlled, 4th grade jobs should go to maharashtrians…And it’s indeed an incroachment, if people from eastern UP and Bihar come and fill these jobs and hence give locals a tough time

    My only contradiction with you and many others is, when you people say ” mumbai belong to maharashtrians”….I dont agree. Mumbai has current status because Central Govt promoted it as commercial capital of India and Entrepreneurs from North and Gujarat chose Mumbai to setup their enterprise.

  22. November 12, 2008 10:16 am

    Nita

    Yes people from outside chose Mumbai…That’s largely because Central Govt promoted Mumbai and homed ALL major financial institutions in Mumbai…

    Of course Maharashtrians should be given credit for a friendly and safe environment, but i dont think Mumbai was the ONLy city in India with such industry friendly climate…Delhi, Chandigarh, Kanpur etc too were contenders..But Central Govt dominated by Nort Indians chose Mumbai, perhaps they didn’t know that they would be considered “outsiders” in the city

    Vivek, what you are not saying is why the central govt. chose mumbai!!! :) If there were no industries here, would they have? Ofcourse not, They could have chosen Chennai or Bangalore…all these things happens slowly Vivek.Nothing happens overnight. Same way if MH continues its anti-north stand, industries will leave mumbai and MH, slowly and surely. In another 50 years Mumbai will no longer be the financial capital. No one forces anything, things happen because of reasons. I think you should look at this objectively, which I think you don’t as you get emotionally involved. Nita.

  23. sangeeta permalink
    November 12, 2008 10:26 am

    Vivek Mittal,

    Mumbai is and will always be the capital of Maharashtra.Your very stubbornness to accept this fact will lead to many Raj Thackeray’s being born.

    As Nita said – no one forced the industrialist to set up base in Maharashtra,they are definitely not here for charity.They did it because they found atmosphere conducive here not because central government promoted it!! By your logic then many more Mumbai’s should be set up by now.

  24. Vivek Khadpekar permalink
    November 12, 2008 10:33 am

    @ V Mittal:

    I feel compelled to hold a brief on behalf of the person you address as Dhyanesh. The correct spelling is Dnyanesh. We Maharashtrians pronounce (and therefore transcribe in English) the last letter of the Devanagari alphabet as ‘dnya’. In Gujarati it is pronounced (and transcribed) as ‘gna’. In Sanskrt it is ‘jña’. The Hindiwallahs pronounce it ‘gya’. Just because you are not familiar with these facts (though you should be — the poet-saint Dnyaneshwara is one of the very important figures in the cultural and spiritual history of not only Maharashtra but of the whole of India), please do not change the name to something that you are more ‘familiar’ with.

    I am poking my nose into this because Dnyanesh (like most Maharashtrians) may be too meek to correct you, a member of the self-styled master race; whereas I firmly believe in protesting against anything that smacks of the cultural imperialism of the north over the rest of India.

  25. November 12, 2008 12:09 pm

    Mr Khadpekar

    I take these things casually.Sometimes while writing emails in hurry I spell even my name incorrect and dont bother to correct, also hardly I write my name starting with Caps

  26. November 12, 2008 12:19 pm

    Nita

    \\ They could have chosen Chennai or Bangalore \\

    I agree chennai could have been contender, But not Bangalore, at the time of independence it was no significant industrial centre …Whereas i counted Three cities, Delhi for being national capital, Chandigarh for having best infrastructure and being only planned city, and Kanpur, for being among the most prominent industrial cities of South Asia that time.

  27. Vivek Khadpekar permalink
    November 12, 2008 1:20 pm

    @ vivek mittal:

    At the time of independence there was no Chandigarh. Delhi was the country’s capital, yes, but it is the limit of hallucinogenous wishful thinking to say that it was “among the most prominent industrial cities of South Asia that time.”

  28. November 12, 2008 1:41 pm

    @ vivek K

    i was talking about Kanpur and not Delhi

  29. Dnyanesh permalink
    November 12, 2008 3:09 pm

    I think the problem with people from North is this dominant feeling of ‘ruler’ i.e. ‘We decided this we decided that’. I do not really understand how North Indians made Mumbai great? We can understand if Gujrathis come and starts claiming the same. North Indians were the last one to arrive even after south Indians. They may go ahead and claim that many more cities in Maharashtra, saying they built them. Mumbai is capital of Maharashtra. This is not taught in Northern schools. They better.

    Open your eyes. States on the south of Maharashtra are moving ahead faster than you can imagine. Neighbouring Gujrat is actually a front runner. Do you believe that this progress is because of North’s wish? Understand real problem, clean up your own house and put up ‘Welcome board’ instead of teaching Maharashtrians.

    Dnyanesh, All people from the north are not like that in my view, but yes some cannot stomach the development of Mumbai. That is why they feel everything is “given” to Mumbai. Nothing is given, it’s been earned but to admit that means admitting something great about Mumbai which people do not want to. Its fine with me, because facts speak for themselves. And if Kanpur was a contender to being India’s industrial capital I am sure there were excellent reasons for Kanpur not getting that status. Also industrialists could have easily gone to Kanpur, but they didn’t. Also, I advise you not to fall into any argument where someone says their region is better than others. This is the reason for the problems in India today…an attitude which denies other states their due and also a false sense of superiority. All communities have contributed to the development of MH, not just one. I think it is petty to start saying one community did more than the other. Such things is exactly the Raj T mentality…a divisive mentality. – Nita

  30. vivekmittal permalink
    November 12, 2008 3:37 pm

    @ Dnyanesh

    In mumbai, North Indian industrialists outnumber Gujaratis.Perhaps you dont know.

    Second thing, if you are talking about progress rates, then better refer this survey of India today (just released 2 months back), where North is ranked ahead of rest of India on all parameter of economic and social development. North is not only Bihar and UP, you should know.

    http://indiatoday.digitaltoday.in/index.php?option=com_content&issueid=71&task=view&id=15109&sectionid=30&Itemid=1

    Hue and cry of south’s development is only due to offices of IT companies
    Refer following page also for more details and ranking of states o all parameters of development

    http://indiatoday.digitaltoday.in/index.php?latn=1&issueid=71&page=archieve

  31. November 12, 2008 4:54 pm

    \\ some cannot stomach the development of Mumbai. That is why they feel everything is “given” to Mumbai \\

    The issue of contribution to Mumbai by people from other parts of India came only because they were referred as “outsiders” and even attacked for being so.
    Mumbai is the only city in the country where “outsiders” have contributed so heavily.
    if “outsiders” will be humilated and told that Mumbai belongs to ONLY marathis, then these issues will surely come up.

  32. Manjul Sinha permalink
    November 12, 2008 4:55 pm

    Guys:

    About 30 years back if you looked at the wrapper of almost any medicine in India, it would be manufactured in Calcutta. Today you will hardly find any medicine made in Calcutta. Exodus of pharma companies from Bengal is complete.

    Capital flows to the most desirable locations. Government institutions like SEBI, stock exchange etc. follow the capital. It is not the other way round. Look at what happened to Reliance in Lucknow. Ambani made huge investments in UP at the insisting of his friend Mulayam Singh who was CM. After Mayawati came to power, she made it her personal mission to force Ambanis out. In the end, it is UP that lost out, not Mayawati.

    Thank you for a balanced comment Manjul. It is important that we all think like Indians. – Nita.

  33. Dnyanesh permalink
    November 13, 2008 1:29 am

    @Manjul

    I agree with you. Bengalis’ love for communism made sure exodus of many companies. Mumbai also had this love for communism and closed textile mills represent that past. Mumbai survived and went ahead of other 3 metros because communism did not thrive in Maharashtra and we are always open to all. But now, we see misadvatages taken of our openness.

    You example of Ambanis shows the real difference. Maharashtra always had stable Congress govt and able leaders like Yashwantrao Chavan, Sharad Pawar. Changes in political leadership has never affected business environment that drastically.

  34. stud.boy99 permalink
    November 17, 2008 11:41 pm

    First, a lot of biharis come to delhi too… and i do not oppose that… i am from india if i can go to any part of india and settle there, then why can they not do the same… btw apart from biharis, many kerelaites, tamilians, andhraites, bengalis also come to delhi and people from NE states too… we do not oppose them… that is called “freedom of movement” which is guaranteed by constitution of India…. i guess maharastrians (or atleast maharastratian leaders) need to learn this…

    Secondly, most maharastrians make a direct connection between poor situation in bihar and “north indian” exodus to mumbai… its not entirely true… i am from delhi, and many people do go from delhi to mumbai for jobs (and vice versa), and job situation and development in Delhi is pretty good.. (touch wood)… ditto for kolkata, bangalore, chennai… people from these places also travel to other cities…

    Studboy, the people who are resented are mostly the daily wage labourers and people from the poorer classes. Although Manjul has mentioned a bias against Biharis, as he says this bias exists in many states, including Delhi and Punjab, and NE, but this is not what Raj T agitation is really about. Also resentment arises when the demographics of the local population changes like in Mumbai where only 25% of people now are Maharashtrians and most of these are poor or middle class. This makes many people insecure, particularly those who feel they may not be able to feed their families. But I agree entirely, Biharis, whether poor or rich, have every right to go wherever they want in India. And not all MH leaders oppose this, only Raj Thackeray and at one time his uncle. This issue is very complicated Studboy. – Nita.

  35. stud.boy99 permalink
    November 18, 2008 9:47 pm

    Before i start to reply, i wanted to congratulate you… you’ve written a gr8 article, and you’ve written after a good amount of research… most of them mainstream media i read just sensationalises the news, not many good articles coming up there…

    so, as for my reply..

    for your comment 25 % ppl in bby are localites… this is how I understand it… talented people from all over india to earn money, and success fame etc… if they make it big in mumbai, then they deserve it… no localite needs to feel ashamed that big and successful do not speak marathi… let the marathis rise to the challenge (this time too as they have done in past) and prove that they deserve to be among the highly successful, rather than forcing the successful people to learn a language… if some selected few might speak marathi in public, it won’t change a thing in marathi manoos’s life… but imagine the hate it generates against Marathis…Mumbai might loose its goodwill and metropolitan image in the process… i remember my mumbai friends calling everyplace outside mumbai as gaon… they are so proud of mumbai… I don’t think they will say so…

    On the other hand, MH today boasts of the huge taxes paid to central government, most of this comes from these successful few, if these successful people (75% outsiders) decided to move out of mumbai… then how i don’t think the taxes paid will be that much.. Raj thakre should think on the lines of what is happening to WB after tata nano moved out of it… and probably multiply it by 25-30 times… so, Raj thakre might get the unemployed marathi manoos behind him but looses the cheque… i guess marathi manoos will also abandon him as not many jobs will be generated then…

    thirdly and finally, I was noticing the craze among westerners about learning chinese…which is by far one of the most difficult language, with 500 characters… now, westerners were not forced to learn a language as difficult as chinese, were they? and this rise in craze is rising with the success of china… its the aura, respect of china is what is forcing westerners to learn this new language… and you know, there are hundreds of languages within Europe, and they are loosing many of them each year to English, french and german… yes.. despite best efforts of european governments… hope marathis are listening to this…

    and if someone can translate it in Marathi for illiterate marathi manoos and the leader of hate, Mr Raj thakre, that will be good… oh, my bad.. Raj knows english already… and his kids also too, they study in english schools, not in the same schools as marathi manoos’s kids..

    so, only marathi manoos needs to understand this, everyone else already knows what i am saying…

    Studboy, I do agree with you in priniciple. However the local driver staying in a slum is not bothered about whether Anil Ambani the industrialist speaks Marathi, he is bothered when a Bihari driver comes along and works for less money. This agitation is about economics. As I said before it is a very complicated issue. Raj T is also using the Marathi language card. And as you mentioned taxes, Mumbai is paying the taxes but the centre is not giving much back to Mumbai and that is a big grouse of Mumbai. And ofcourse MH will suffer if Raj T continues – Nita.

  36. stud.boy99 permalink
    November 18, 2008 11:32 pm

    ya, only if people understood this that its a political gimmick of Raj T, for votebanks…

    you know, since we are discussing economics and politics.. its good to mention here about role of subsidies in india… government might almost never gives the exact same amount of what it takes in taxes to same region (or same people)… let me give u some examples–

    people from higher income brackets pay higher tax rates (abt 40-50% tax rate), where as no taxes for people below a certain income levels, BUT BUT its the people from lower incomes who enjoy these benefits the most, by way of govt schools, govt hospitals, minimum wages, tribal NGOs etc…

    Also, govt has lower income tax rates for women, and higher income taxes for men for same income tax brackets…. and women health programmes cost more than men health programmes..!!!

    so, its not that Mumbai is being “isolated and looted” for “its” money, its a concept of economics itself… this is how govt works, and i think it is good… if they had not given almost-free education to poor, we wouldn’t have got this literacy in the first place, forget the jobs…

    Also, it was the one who created the infrastructure which Mumbai boasts of… places like chatrapati shivaji airport was built with the help of central government, so will be the mumbai-delhi corridor… which came by taxes paid by people from all parts of india… its not the people of MH who solely “own” Mumbai… i hope they understood this…

  37. stud.boy99 permalink
    November 19, 2008 1:15 am

    I was reading some funny arguments made earlier….please read for my take on each one of them…

    1. “north indians” have ruler mentality, and they want to rule Maharastrians— apparently “north indians” are trying to rule MH by sending illiterate autorickshaw drivers and labourers.., maybe its their way of letting the footsoldiers and means of transportation reach there first.. before the D-day when Lalu himself arrives… LOL

    2. “north indians” cannot improve the governments inside their states– look who is talking, apparently the farmer killings happening in MH because the marathi manoos was disturbed by the sight of some outsiders working as labourers nearby…no, no they were not worried about their own credits and bad loans etc…

    3. “north indians” come here– well buddy, its their constitutional right to go anywhere they want to in india.. if you refuse it, government can send you to jail (no no, its not funny, its for real..) and BTW, many marathi manoos are staying in other states within India… recently some MH people association in Bihar/MP also criticised Raj T for his stand…and that reminds me, Rajnikanth was originally from MH, and now he has settled in Chennai.. i m sure he does not want to come back and settle in MH, and he does not support Raj T either… so, as per the experiments’ results, marathi manoos is observed to become more knowledgeable about Indian constitution when he is made to stay outside MH… that brings us to the Q that where should we send Raj T to? any suggestions..?

  38. Kumar permalink
    November 19, 2008 9:09 pm

    Marathi people had given a such a successful state where indians can be proud of.Marathi people had contributed thru maharastra a big chunk of GDP.I myself a south indian likes to see non-hindi speaking people to speak their mother tongue instead of Hindi anywhere in this world.This will help the co existence of all languages.

  39. Vivek Khadpekar permalink
    November 19, 2008 9:47 pm

    @ Kumar:

    //I…likes to see non-hindi speaking people to speak their mother tongue instead of Hindi anywhere in this world.//

    I salute you for so boldly asserting that.

    To add to it, I would strongly urge that henceforth, any Hindi imperialist who desires to live and earn a livelihood in any non-Hindi-speaking part of India should acquire a working knowledge of a local language of that part of the country.

    The only exception to this may be made in respect of those north-Indians who, at school in Hindi-speaking states, were compelled to learn any Modern Indian Language according to the letter [I repeat...the letter not merely the spirit] of the Three-Language Formula introduced in 1968. You can read about it here, where even Hindi speaking states were required to learn a modern Indian language.

    In the case of those who did not thus learn an MIL in addition to Hindi, their school-leaving certificates must automatically be considered as fraudulent. And any of their subsequent achievements (academic or other) for which those school certificates were a precondition of entry, must also be declared as fraudulent and they must be punished for this fraud. These provisions must be implemented with retrospective effect from 1968.

  40. Dnyanesh permalink
    November 20, 2008 6:03 am

    @Stud Boy, Good to see that you are here.
    You need to understand the fact that New Delhi is union territory and Mumbai is not. It will never become one.
    Constitution gives right to move and settle anywhere in India but it does assume that no state will become burden on another. I think Maharashtra has every right to question this mass migration of Biharies, esp when that number is going from lakhs to crores. It is already affecting our cities. You don’t see about that in one sided northen (certainly not national) media.

    Why can’t you write something about failures of UP, Bihar politicians to provide jobs in say, Bihar Times or NDTV? We know about constitution and have proven our patriotism many times in history.
    Whatever questions you have raised, you can ask Northern politicians for answer. See if you can get one.

    If Bihar, UP can not provide jobs then they can send their share from budget to MH.

  41. Kumar permalink
    November 20, 2008 10:30 am

    FIRST & FOREMOST POINT IS LOT OF PEOPLE DOESN’T KNOW HINDI IS NOT OUR MOTHER TONGUE.HINDI IS JUST
    AN OFFICIAL LANGUAGE ALONG WITH ENGLISH.AS WE ENTER A STATE THE OFFICIAL LANGUAIGE STATUS

    DIFFERS FROM STATE TO STATE.WE DONT HAVE ANY NATIONAL LANGUAGE IN INDIA.PLS REFER.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_language_of_India

    For a peaceful co-existence of all the languages in India & balance of the development in India the following points are needed.

    1) All the Non-Hindi language people has to give importance to their mother tongue and use their mother tongue as much as possible.

    2) Hindi has to be used only when there is a communication in the market place where people can’t speak english.

    3) For communication between non-hindi people, speaking different languages (say between a marathi & telugu) ..English has to be used.

    4) For Communication between a Hindi mother tongue person and a non hindi mother tongue person in his native place say (UP person & marathi in Mumbai) The language must be Marathi or English but definetly not hindi.

    5) similarly in bengaluru the communication should be in Kannada/English.

    6) Even if the other person doesn’t understand our mother tongue we should use our mother tongue..as this is our right.

    If we kill our mother tongue we are killing our own people.I will show you how..

    If we dont respect our mother tongue..than our theatre,drama,literature,poetry,language will get effected.

    As marathi people had freely accepted hindi (in 1950-80’s ) the consequences are as follows.

    a) They had killed the jobs created where marathi language is used.
    b) They had killed the marathi Film Industry..This automatically became a plus point for bollywood (Hindi films)
    c) They had killed the marathi drama & theatre.
    d) They had killed the market for local marathi TV channels & radio channels.

    Do you have a Marathi FM channel ? like telugus have in hyderabad,kannada,tamil,malyalee people are having.

    Now a days it became a fashion to kill our mother (Language,culture,literature,poetry) and embrace other cultures.embracing hindi,western,…Normal people are under the impression that to become global we shouldn’t speak our language, practice our religion,culture. People are craving for western culture killing our Indian or state culture.

    7) Hindi people has to learn the language of the state after arriving in a Non-Hindi state.

    8] All the state development will reflect in the local language films/TV/Radio…technologically how advanced the state & its culture is.This will create employment for the local people also.

    9) No one can claim development of the other people.A hindi person cannot claim the devlopment done in Mumbai, Hyderabad, Bengaluru, Delhi, NCR, Gujarat.Yes, as a Indian he can be proud that Marathi people are also indians. But you can’t kill a marathi Identity to say as everything is India & its mine..attitude. If you can’t identify a existant culture anytime during this universe..than the other person can guage what kind of metality we are having.

    10) Poor states shouldn’t feel, as Punjab & Haryana are doing well we can survive on them..being north indians. remember Punjabis are getting respect in maharastra/Globally because they are themselves a developed state so for business they migrate with all proper eminities in new place..

    11) Remember hindi people have a problem in Punjab & Haryana.

    12) There is a strong need for the hindi people to revolt against their politicians for the mess they had created in their states.They should stop voting on the lines of caste and should learn voting for development like maharastra, Gujarat & south Indian states.

    13) There are some north Indian hindi people who just satisfy taking Delhi’s/NCR development into account for north India…Its wrong ..a capital region of India is the result of the entire country india. …A state capital is the result of the development of the people of that state….I would I love to see Patna,Lucknow,Raipur,Kanpur,Ranchi,Bhopal,Allahabad developing as well in terms of investment and development…

    Now-a-days it became a status symbol to say we dont speak hindi. I speak marathi, gujarati, punjabi, telugu.

  42. Kumar permalink
    November 20, 2008 4:01 pm

    @ stud.boy99

    “btw apart from biharis, many kerelaites, tamilians, andhraites, bengalis also come to delhi and people from NE states too… we do not oppose them…”

    You want to oppose people of a sovereign country to go to their country capital..? I am sure you wont do that.

    Mumbai case is not same as Delhi/NCR.Mumbai is a capital city of maharastra state.A capital of the state is the result of the policies of the state government & the hardwork of the local people.

    Lot of Hindi north Indians argue mumbai success is not just because of marathis..as there is a contribution from Gujaratis,marawaris & parsis. As Gujaratis,marwaris & parsis are integral part of maharastrian culture there is no tussle with them. & its a known fact they like maharastra state as it is their second or first home.We can see same kind of mumbai developement in other cities of maharastra like Navi Mumbai,Thane, Kalyan, Nashik, Aurangabad, Nagpur, Ahmednagar & Shiridi for that matter we can find MIDC Maharastra Industrial development corporation in towns and villages also..Can North indians claim the development of the entire state of maharastra. No, they can’t ..as a development of a state, district, mandal or a city depends to a large extent upon the politicians of the respective state. It depends on people of the state as they are responsible to choose a government of the state to take the state forward.

    By this way tommorow north Indians will just get satisfied themselves with Kerala & Punjab as they are the most progressive states no need for us to develop entire India ..and we are also responsible for the development of Punjab & Kerala… :)

    We need to develop each and every state of India by 2020. Migration is not the solution.

  43. stud.boy99@gmail.com permalink
    November 20, 2008 11:23 pm

    @ Dnyanesh

    see the logic for taxes and subsidies which i have written above, and which answers your Q already… i m not sure why you ignored to see that… if you cannot understand this, take a basic economics course, i suggest… this mechanism is being used for all democratic governments…

    and btw by your own logic, non-mumbai MH people are a also burden on Mumbai people because mumbai pays more in state taxes and MH govt gives the money to non-tax paying suicidal marathi manhoos farmer as a subsidy… nobody questions why MH state govt gives the grants to these poor suicidal people using the state taxes raised from Mumbai people’s state taxes… a big WHY??? why can these people not work for themselves…

    & the very thought that a state is a burden on another is floated by Raj T and his uncle to promote regionalism…. state government schools which teach marathi in MH are being financed by central government… you can’t imagine the things done by central government for you… check the internet for the times MH state govt has got funds to make rural roads in MH using central government grants… recently indian navy thwarted somali pirates to direclty save mumbai port… and as i mentioned earlier Shivaji airport, and delhi-mumbai corridor are funded by central government… can you be thankful to the things done for you ??

    In 1960s-1970s, Shiv sena was killing south indians, their slogan was “lungi hatao pungi bajao” and “yendu gundu”, they protested against Gujratis, they protested against Bengalis too for coming to mumbai… now the recent one in north indians and biharis… (see this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiv_Sena)

    Its just a politics, because MNS thinks it is a regional party with presence only in MH, and so it can make extreme statements against other regions without any effect on its vote bank, other parties which have presence in other regions cannot do the same and hence are silent… just think why shiv sena itself is silent on the regional issue… coz they have a base in delhi, and recently shiv sena office in delhi was protesting against Bal thakre for his statements some time back, you can check the news for this…. same is the case for NCP’s sharad pawar…

    can the marathi manhoos really not see it?? i mean, is he REALLY THAT blind..!!!!

    I think either government of india should educate the illiterate people (just giving money to state governments for educating the masses is not enough, as it has been proved so far..) so that they can take a informed and knowledgeable decision and they are not fooled by petty politicians for decade after decade, or (i know it feels bad adn i don;t really suppor it but..) take away the right of voting, and turn india into a communist country…

  44. stud.boy99 permalink
    November 21, 2008 12:01 am

    @ Dnyanesh.. Mass migration…. talent is flowing from everywhere to MH, and from MH to other places too… its the freeflow of goods, and services, and labour that make the market competitive… bajaj (not a maharastrian) makes scooters and bikes in MH, wht if other states refuse to take the things producted in MH??? same for trucks made by Tata (not a maharastrian) in MH… ask the tata and bajaj if they would support that?? the entire “pride of MH” can be put to grinding halt by one such inward-looking stroke…

    same for bollywood, the banks and finance industry, engineering… etc… its the competition and support from others that brought the best in each of these fields…

    if you’re scared to face competition from others, do not name it as regional pride, its regional shame… why can you not take the competition in stride…!!? if you pride yourself in being so good, (which i do not contest btw, MH is govt is not as bad as MP or bihar) then why being so protective?

    if some labourers come to MH, and they reduce the costs, then does it not help the customers who get good service for less price….?? same as in case of getting good talent for bollywood and banks, and engineering etc…if you get protective, costs will go up, and no one will come to MH, look at Bengal.. they have more “localites” there, and they are no less talented, i m sure…

  45. stud.boy99 permalink
    November 21, 2008 12:11 am

    @kumar, i do not oppose people so vehemently bcos everything what i said, you took it in the exact opposite sense…SOMEHOW…

    for the record…

    1. i never said that i oppose anyone coming to any other place…

    2. i did not claim that the development of MH was done by “north indians” themselves… i claimed the development on indians everywhere…

    3. i was satisfied not satisfied with development of kerela and punjab either…

    4. when did i say that migration is a sole solution to india development by 2020?? but anti-migration is definetly derogoratory…

    get some sense, it will help the people around you…

  46. stud.boy99 permalink
    November 21, 2008 1:40 am

    @ Dnyanesh

    Though I agree that regional disparity in growth is very high.. MH and Gujarat are forging ahead and MP, Bihar, UP and NE are lagging behind… but stopping people from crossing over will eventually be hurting to entire india… its against “freedom of movement” guaranteed in indian constitution… it will be counterproductive… best solution, as we all would probably agree on is for bihar government to improve… we are certainly criticising them, maybe we can help them, or maybe we can suggest something to them instead of just criticising… (i m not sure if the help is possible, but certainly criticising is not helping)… but stopping indian people from moving to new places within india is not a solution, it is against constitution… people move to new cities in search of good life, infact poor villagers also move to cities, that is how indian cities were created first… shd they be stopped too, in the name of crowding of cities…??? i think people should be free to choose to do whatever possible to improve their lives, as long as they are not doing anything illegal… they can move to new cities, or move back to villages to any place in india… get into new profession or leave a profession… buy from one producer or seller, not buy from anyone else…

    and if by looking at this injustice and killing, people from other states retaliate either by obstructing the goods manufactured in MH, or boycotting the services of banks or other industries in MH.. or by stopping trains coming directly from MH, or by simply resorting to beating people coming from MH… (all of which is not legal, i totally agree) then this serves as fodder for MNS to tell marathi manoos that “how bad outsiders actually are”…and there we go for another round of hate politics from MNS…

  47. Dnyanesh permalink
    November 21, 2008 8:20 am

    Stud.boy,
    The free movement, free economy you are referring is good for US or western world. We have just started moving towards that free world. Our problems are more complex than those so called first world countries.
    What we see is one way mass migration. We are on the receiving side of all this. If Bihar, UP develop themselves then we will be very happy to move there. We also have that right, I guess. But it will be interesting to see when that time will come. We are doing not ‘inward thinking’. I think so called nationalist people do not want to understand our issues. We have been welcoming people from all over India for decades. It is because of our openeness that Industries are coming here. Please read Nita’s original article. Bajaj is from Wardha (Maharashtra) if you don’t know. Tata’s are based in Mumbai for obvious reasons. Why not Lucknow, Patna? Ask Ambanis rather than Tata.

    Our problem is that now people from other states have ‘almost’ started saying that this house is theirs. We will still continue welcoming but now we need some bricks (budget share) from your land too to do that in a better manner. Can we get that from Center? Also, we need to take care of people from our own house too, which is our main responsibility, which we can not deny.

  48. Kumar permalink
    November 21, 2008 1:44 pm

    @ stud.boy99

    “2. i did not claim that the development of MH was done by “north indians” themselves… i claimed the development on indians everywhere…”

    Why do you want to kill marathi identity by saying the development belongs to Indians….? when you say the development of MH is due to marathi’s than automatically it belongs to India..as marathis or Indians…you want to credit it to entire India..for the development in maharastra..I am a telugu in andhra..how can i take a credit for maharstra development.. i will be just happy for the maharastra development as it is in India and my neighbouring state.. i will be more happy if Andhra Pradesh becomes like Maharastra in the development.. similarly as a Indian .. i feel bad for the backward states like UP,bihar,jharkand.

    “3. i was not satisfied with development of kerela and punjab either…”

    No one can ever satisfy with development.. even USA will not be satisfied with development of their country..its a journey ..towards perfection.

    ” but anti-migration is definetly derogoratory”
    No body is against a civilised migration with proper amenities.

  49. stud.boy permalink
    November 21, 2008 4:19 pm

    @Dnyanesh

    1. Getting budget from bihar for biharis, .. well, logically there are no separate state taxes or restrictions for anything build in MH and sold in any part of India… if anything is built in MH and sold outside MH, then effectively someone in remote part of india is loosing their job to MH too (even if its because of efficiency and skill of MH), and this happens even if MH people did not go to other places outside MH but the goods that they produced reached outside MH… if MH is getting revenue bcos of demand of entire india, then they should also share the benefits of employment.. think abt it…

    and asking for budget is a populist statement from MNS to garner votes… they know that nobody in india has ever asked for it… MNS will not directly talk to any other state government for it, neither did Shiv sena so far, they themselves know this is absurd.. its more a point for crying in front of MH people about how bad rest of india is, i m sure you’d see the logic…

    2. someone said people are killing marathi identity… i don’t think anyone can kill it or if anyone is trying to kill it…

    and on a serious note, if anyone is killing it, its MNS… marathis are for hard work and competition, and MNS is against competition from others in the name of helping marathis…

    MNS want every other indian (biharis, punjabis, tamilians, gujratis) to leave MH… and so that their vote bank gets a boost… but marathis embrace everyone… they have done so even since centuries..

    @kumar… once again… you’ve a unique skill of misunderstanding my statements…

    when i said that i claimed the development on indians everywhere… i m not trying to belittle anyone’s effort… and for your statement, all said and done you’re an indian first before being an andhraite… check your passport if you do not believe me…

    get some sense, this is the last time i am explaining you… and if you don’t start to say anything sensible, i m going to ignore you from now on… nita, please help.. :(

    Studboy, you have made your points clear and so has Kumar, there is no need for you to keep replying to him. :) Whoever reads both your comments will make up his/her own mind, and that is indeed the idea. So chill. – Nita.

  50. Dnyanesh permalink
    November 22, 2008 2:09 am

    Stud boy,

    1. There are reasons why companies are coming to Maharashtra and not going to states in question. If people are moving into Maharashtra then certainly they are moving out from some state, so it makes sense to allocate that share to Maharashtra. It is not a populist statement but current need of Maharashtra.
    2. These are jobs created and not outsourced. As per constitution no one can deny this right. But this mass migration is a huge issue for us and it is affecting us. If it is not thought over seriously then it will show up in many other states as well.
    3. MNS does not want people to leave but it does want to control this influx (30000 per day?). It is Northern media which is printing. painting that is not real. The questions raised by MNS are real. The way they put it is wrong and not acceptable to most of the Maharashtrians. But it is also the fact that Railways ignored their requests in the past.
    FYI, I am not a supporter of MNS. It is also true that other states objected to the same with Railways

  51. stud.boy99 permalink
    November 22, 2008 12:54 pm

    I read online news from these sources- times of india, hindustan times, hindu, and rediff, and http://news.google.co.in/nwshp?hl=en&tab=wn

    and almost all media, except for the one controlled by MNS tells you the same story.. he can paint them as nationalistic media, or he can paint it as external media, or he can call them anti MH.. but they are all only against the ideology of violent MNS…no one said anything bad about MH so far…

    see these news links….

    this one tells you exact number of migrant people reaching MH, which is far far below than 300,000 per day..!!
    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Mumbai/Mumbai_has_large_number_of_migrants_from_rest_of_Maharashtra_as_well/articleshow/3674144.cms

    —- i have cut-paste a portion fom the above news— this TISS, is a social research centre, basicaly non-political source of news.. and it is based in mumbai itself–

    The study conducted by the Tata Institute of Social Sciences (TISS) showed that in a five-year period between 1995 and 2000, around 8.6 lakh migrants came to Mumbai. The study was based on the 2001 census data, which put Mumbais population at 12 million.

    Of these 12 million, 3.2 lakh had migrated from north Indian states such as Uttar Pradesh, Bihar, Madhya Pradesh, Punjab, Haryana and Jammu & Kashmir. Migrants from Maharashtra to Mumbai numbered 2.4 lakh. Also, 1.2 lakh south Indians migrated to Mumbai in the same five-year period.

    “This data explodes the myth that north Indian migrants are overcrowding Mumbai. While the number of people who come from the southern states have decreased, there is a large number of migrants coming to Mumbai from rural Maharashtra in search of employment,” said professor D P Singh of TISS, who conducted the study.
    ———-

    an article about MNS being against constitution.. the one is speaking is CJI of India..not any political leader
    http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/PoliticsNation/Regressive_politics_contrary_to_Constitution_CJI/articleshow/3729956.cms

    news of migrants from punjab–with no violence surprisingly!!
    http://www.ndtv.com/convergence/ndtv/story.aspx?id=NEWEN20080071873

    some good article
    http://www.newstrackindia.com/newsdetails/32380

    this two are from foreign media–both against MNS
    http://www.livemint.com/2008/11/19002212/Maharashtra8217s-retrograde.html?h=B
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7735915.stm

    this one was written by some bihari so someone may call it biased…but still its an opinion
    http://www.thestatesman.net/page.news.php?clid=31&theme=&usrsess=1&id=231871

    so, basically no 300,000 people are migrating to MH every day… and whatever the number is, dealing it with violence is not a viable solution… its more a violent political gimmick…

  52. stud.boy99 permalink
    November 22, 2008 1:00 pm

    see another one…
    http://www.ndtv.com/convergence/ndtv/story.aspx?id=NEWEN20080070438

    another one, is from Punjab protesting against the migrants, again another localised party (akali dal) which has presence only in Punjab (and it can have presence only and only in Punjab, never in any other states…) is protesting… this one is just opposite of what other report said… but its not violent still…

    http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?newsid=1202580

  53. stud.boy99 permalink
    November 22, 2008 1:51 pm

    nita, i had given another list of various news sources …i think it got moderated…

    I found that comment, it hadn’t gone into moderation. It had gone into my spam folder due to the number of links. – Nita

  54. Dnyanesh permalink
    November 22, 2008 1:56 pm

    NDTV is New Delhi Television. Northern media. Biased.
    As far as we know only 3 incidences happened.
    1. A Bihari youth, Rahul Raj, killed by Maharashtra police. He tried to take hostage and kill police. Police did not know that he was Bihari or Maharashtrian. They were trying to protect other citizens (which include other Biharis as well) Northern media, like NDTV, misled you.
    2. One person from Bihar killed in the train. This was after a quarrel over a window seat.
    It was not a hate crime. Northern media tried to paint it again as hate crime.
    3. A Bihari person died when he slipped and killed on the tracks as confirmed by Railway police. Northern media again show otherwise.
    Even Maharashtra govt blamed media for showing small incidents as if city is burning.

    Have you read that 4 Marathi youths were thrown out of train 2 years back? That Bihari youth, laborer in local train got compensation for crime(Rahul Raj). Families of Maharahstrian youths are still waiting for justice.

  55. Alok Awasthi permalink
    November 27, 2008 5:56 am

    Now that Mumbai is burning, where are Raj T and his symapthizers on this forum? Or are they still counting whether the dead bodies belong to the ‘outsiders’ or ‘sons of the soil’?

  56. November 27, 2008 8:29 pm

    @Alok Awasthi
    Raj T and his sympathizers ??????
    I don’t see anyone sympathizing with Raj T here (at least not the Owner of this site, Nita). This is not the Raj T’s fan club if you think so. Please read all the comments before calling anybody RT’s supporters/sympathizers.

  57. stud.boy99@gmail.com permalink
    November 28, 2008 8:21 am

    @Dnyanesh

    MNS is trying to paint everything outside the influence of MNS as to be against MH, which is not true, MNS wants to paint every media based outside MH as “against-MH” as this suits their purpose… now every media house does not need to open an office in MH to prove its innocence… its the marathi manoos who should be knowledgeable to see through the truth…

    as i had earlier pointed out, MNS and shiv sena fanned the controversies for years about “heavy taxes being taken from Mumbai and nothing being returned”, and another one which was that “30,000 biharis coming in mumbai every day” both of which were divisive and wrong…

    and till yesterday they were blasting ATS for malegaon, and now they are silent after the mumbai terror attacks… see for yourself..

    and latest, watch this for Pawar’s views on MNS and the outsider (and insider) controversy in MH… http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/002200811201111.htm

    its time marathi manoos started reading media news other than the ones “approved” by MNS, and start trusting his judgement instead of the “word of MNS”

    Studboy, you have continously used the word “marathi manoos” in your comments and I have let it be, but frankly it is now getting irritating because I wonder whether you know what it means. It means the marathi man in literal translation and it means the marathi people in the meaning sense. It is offensive and hurtful. I don’t think you should start giving “advise” to the marathi people because they are not one entity and nor does this one entity have similar views, leave alone communal views. Many of us are simply fighting the communalism of other states, but yes, some Maharashtrians are communal, but kindly stop painting the whole maharashtrian community as communal. This is exactly why I wrote this post, to stop the communalism of those who want to paint the whole MH community as communal. This according to me is communalism and hatred of another. Probably you didn’t even mean to (considering that most of your comments are balanced and reasonable) but let me assure you that you are hurting a lot of people, including me. – Nita.

  58. November 28, 2008 12:40 pm

    @stud.boy99
    If you think that whatever a “new born political party” leader (aka MNS ka Raj T) says if what ALL Marathi people think??? You think he is Voice of Maharashtra? Stupidity have its limits man!! You are crossing them.

    (sorry Nita for these rude statements, but I can’t control)

  59. stud.boy99@gmail.com permalink
    November 28, 2008 9:33 pm

    @nita and @ Suda

    I never said that MH people are communal, but MNS definetely is projecting the MH people as if MH people do not like to see anyone else other than those who can speak marathi, and they are projecting as if MNS and shiv sena are the torchbearers of marathi people.

    And since Marathi media and marathi people (who are not communal at all) are silent to all this propaganda by MNS or shiv sena (I am saying that they are silent as I am yet to see any marathi media or marathi leaders coming against MNS or shiv sena for their anti-north indian stand..maybe most of the marathi people are not communal but the MH media and the MH leadership does not seem to reflect that), it does send a wrong signal to everyone else who is not residing in MH, or to someone who do not know marathis personally, and also within the marathi people themselves.

    and for the record, my perception till now was that marathi people were with MNS or shiv sena until both of you spoke up.

    Nita, i can never use the term “marathi manoos” in derogatory sense, but surely i think they are being misrepresented (with or without their approval).

    thanks for reading…

    Al Qaeda projects as if muslims believe its idealogy, but we don’t believe it do we. And if you had the wrong perception it is because you are not living here in Mumbai. You are getting influenced by hate talk of some media channels. And the MH state govt. has made so many statements against the Shive Sena that I have lost count, so I have no idea what you are talking about. The Shiv Sena is not in power here, and nor is Raj T. The congress is totally against Raj T, and also intellectuals and others have all condemned the Raj T. I really don’t know what media you have access to. I hope you are not following hate talk on blogs, that is the most dangerous. The people with the mildest views will not start blogs. Anyway, I am tired of explaining the same thing, again and again and again. This discussion is getting too much for me, telling you basic facts. As you are living in the US I think you have little idea of whats happening here. – Nita.

  60. stud.boy99@gmail.com permalink
    November 28, 2008 11:55 pm

    @nita

    I am not following the “hate-blogs” for sure. And yes, not all people who do not hate anyone start a blog. But still, there are some people who do not hate anyone do start blogging (example- nita) and share their intellect. I hope many more people do that.

    and I too am aware (and concerned) of what is happening in india though i m in US now, ofcourse i keep coming back to india often…

    and its really good to see that MH people and other leaders can see through the propaganda of shiv sena or Raj T… (or even Advani for that matter), and also through the corruption under the current CM… let’s hope these leaders listen to the masses and change their ways (or get replaced)

    But I can surely say that I did not come across statements from other MH leaders from about “outsiders-insider” controversy, they were totally silent i think. Maybe i missed that somehow… if you have any, feel free to forward them to me…

    chalo bye…

    There are enough articles on this and I don’t know why you are asking me to do the research for you. I am going out of town today, but still, considering that you may not know what search words to use, I have found one which you can read. Here. An official condemnation of raj t and his tactics. And another here. – – Nita.

  61. November 29, 2008 3:55 am

    A very good article with a long long discussion! The best thing to note was of Social reform movement which still has ripple effects in MH. Many people find western maharashtra as a whole ,a safe place for women to live in. Thanks to what the reform movement formed a culture there.
    How so ever you write about Maharashtra, people will not stop deriding Maharashtrians, and other locals for that matter. If one thinks that the finance capital was built entirely by non-MH people, they are possesing a divisive mentality themselves and stand at the place of other Raj T, like someone had said above. SEBI, one of the financial bodies is headed by C.B.Bhave, I suppose its a marathi name and I knew coincidentally as the matter came up. There may be others too. One should not give parochial opinions out of jealousy or emotion. There are reasons why Mumbai is ahead today, and Delhi and Kanpur are not.
    It is just thanks to this social reform movement, an elite still continues to come up from the good education in MH. It is not a coincidence that 4 out of the very few eminent scientists from India are Marathi today.(Anil kakodkar, Vijay P. bhatkar, Jayant narlikar, R.A.Mashelkar)
    And as far as the point of Shiv Sena in the above comment, it is only because of the criticism that Marathi authors bestow on SS through their books,SS has always created problems for the Marathi Literary Meet, by removing subsidies, by shifting locations abruptly. Maybe that is the reason why the next Literary meet is being held in USA, thanks to the presence of Marathi manoos there in good numbers. The supporters of SS come either from the lower classes or from the very elite. I think Ramgopal Varma is one supporter considering his film Sarkar! :)
    BTW, please read this. http://www.ndtv.com/convergence/ndtv/story.aspx?id=NEWEN20080070438
    it says only 10% of all Maharashtrians in Mumbai lower level jobs.

  62. Dnyanesh permalink
    November 30, 2008 1:14 pm

    If you are talking about Marathi people then read Marathi media. How do you expect to find views of Marathi people in NDTV? FYI, MNS can not and does censor what we read. And yes, I did not read anything about 4 Marathi people died in trains in northern media? They were common people unlike ‘nationalist’ from Bihar.

  63. December 7, 2008 4:42 pm

    You are right, Dnyanesh. But, i don’t know whether the infomration given in that NDTV article is true or not, though it’s pro-Maharashtrian. The growth of Mumbai must have recently elevated all the locals there.
    Please read this:
    http://ameyawaghmare.wordpress.com/2008/11/11/the-menace-of-mns-a-marathi-manoos-perspective/
    I’ve tried to give in both of the sides of the story, hope visitors will find it meaningful.

  64. n/a permalink
    July 25, 2009 12:53 am

    nita i visited ur blog today after randim browsing after heated discussions abt usual marathi vs non-marathi issue. I am very amazed and annoyed abt how did i not came across ur blog earlier.i simply liked ur blog bcoz u seem to express sumthing which was simmering under me for years. i actually feel quite relaxed and happy to see that there are so many ppl who think exactly like me, who also care abt our language and culture. we need ppl like u who can express our feelings in intellectual and logical context. i mean we have almost similar views and woes! Be it on Mumbai crisis, Hindi imposition and so on. i simply luvd ur blog and esp the posts abt mh and marathi. i mean it. thanks a zillion for putting up these thoughts and defending and expressing our genuine concerns. God bless.
    Jai Maharashtra!

    P.S-the only diff between u and me is that i am ardent fan of Rajsaheb..!

    hullo n/a and thanks. I am glad you liked my post. Where Raj is concerned I guess some of his ideas are good and like everybody else in this country he is free to have ideas which are not so good too. What I am against are his methods. – Nita

  65. vasudev permalink
    July 25, 2009 8:45 pm

    it is quite annoying if others come and hijack/rule over the locals. and it is ever more annoying if one cannot walk on a newly and beautifully laid footpath leading to a posh locality just because the hutment dwellers delight in getting well laid fecal dumps. mumbai has tolerated all that. but one must also credit it to non-maharashtrian laborers as well…they made mumbai the mumbai it is today, both in its richness as well as in its refuse.

  66. February 15, 2010 11:24 am

    Hi this is rangoli…
    I am very amazed and annoyed abt how did i not came across ur blog earlier.i simply liked ur blog bcoz u seem to express sumthing which was simmering under me for years.

  67. prans permalink
    May 24, 2013 9:51 pm

    This is one of the most informative article i have read about Maharashtra….

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