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The world will be of mixed race one day

April 15, 2008

Indians collage

Ever since I was a teenager I have marveled at the myriad colours that we Indians come in. So why is this? Why do we come in so many different colours and shades? The obvious answer is that we are a mix of different races…uh oh. I have used the wrong word. From this wiki article I came to know that the government frowns upon this idea. For some reason the government of India does not want us to know that India comprises of people of different races.

After the independence, in pursuance of the Government’s policy to discourage community distinctions based on race, the 1951 Census of India did away with racial classifications. The national Census of independent India does not recognize any racial groups in India. In India, “Dravidian”, “Indo-Aryan”, and similar words are generally considered as linguistic terms, rather than ethnic terms.

Well, we do know how keen the Indian government is to reduce any type of caste, racial and linguistic tensions. That is why the Indian government has tried so hard to unify India with one language (Hindi) believing that once people are brainwashed into believing that they are of one race and partake of one language, then they will feel ‘Indian.’ That this strategy hasn’t worked is evident today. In any case, why suppress the truth? How long can you put your head in the sand and pretend that we don’t belong to different races? If we are politically united today it is despite being of different ethnic origins, cultures, religions and languages. So let us make peace with the fact that we are different.

So what exactly are these races that Indians comprise of? Well, there is this theory of the Aryan invasion into North India eons back. But I won’t delve into this as there are those who claim that the Aryan Invasion theory is hogwash…but frankly this post is not about whether the Aryan Invasion theory is true or not as it is too complex a subject for me to tackle. Nor do I want to talk about the definitions of the various races in India. There is no authentic source for this and there isn’t enough research on the subject. Also I am a layman and therefore cannot offer an expert opinion. So what is this post about then?

Well, it is about some DNA tests that were carried out by a particular group…a Maharashtrian community called Konkanastha (Chitpavan) Brahmins. I am not a member of this community but I do know people of this community. I have always been intrigued as to their origin as these people are almost white and many of them have light tan or blue-green eyes. My nephew has these too, because his grandfather (from my sister-in-law’s side) has deep green eyes. Recently a German visitor to their home was surprised to see him and wanted to know whether he had European ancestry. But ofcourse this was not the case, my nephew is 100 percent Indian. That is what most people of the Konkansth Brahmin community will tell you. That they have no foreign blood. That they have no white ancestors. There is no evidence of any foreign ancestor. However, from the wiki I got this:

From the maternal DNA it appears that Konkanasthas (also known as Chitpavan Brahmins) have Central Asian and European DNA in their gene pool. On the paternal side they share genes with North Indians, Central Asians, and East Europeans.

Interesting isn’t it. We all know that some North Indians too share the fairer skin and sharper features of the Caucasian race. The wiki goes on to say that:

the presence of a deep common ancestry between the genes of those in the southern and western regions and northern regions remains a puzzle.

Many Kokanasthas themselves believe it is a big puzzle. There is this site on Konkanstha Brahmins and they too feel it is a mystery:

The explanation of the physical characteristics which are distinctly Caucasian…is lost in the mist of times gone by.

Is it really such a big mystery? Another site on Konkansthas seems to have the answers. This group of people have carried out DNA tests on the community. They say:

Chitpavan-brahmin share ancestry with conspicuously European-looking Pagan or Alpine group, who under religious pressure had migrated from Anatolian Turkey or East Europe to the Gujarat coast probably via sea-vessel. Besides, their (Konkanasthas) documented history is untraceable beyond 1000 years, further indicating that they were not part of the original Vedic migrations (early Indo-European)…

In other words this means that a group of East Europeans are responsible for the genes in the Konkanstha community. This migration was fairly recent (according to the genome analyses) and the theory is that they landed up in India via the trade route to Gujarat. This group of foreigners then migrated to India’s western coast and then moved further south to the Konkan region and made it their home.

Interestingly, the fair-skinned green-eyed Aishwarya Rai is from the Bunt community from the coastal regions of western Karnakata. It is entirely possible that migrants from Europe went further south along the coast and populated those areas as well. In fact a serious study as to the genetic orgin of the Bunts is under way and perhaps we will get more answers then.

Ofcourse it is also possible that the Portuguese who ruled various parts of India, like Daman and Goa or the French who ruled parts of South India or the British left their genes somewhere in the Indian gene pool. But the fact is that they never really became Indians and therefore it is unlikely that their genes made a significant mark here. More important, if these invaders had intermarried (which they did) with the locals their genes would only run in families, not whole communities. And there are large communities in India which share common ancestry with Caucasians. And these communities are Hindu. These people are deeply entrenched in Indian soil and cannot think of themselves as having any foreign ancestor.

The difference between say the Konkanastha community and the Parsis is worth mulling over. Everyone knows the history of the Parsis, that they migrated from Iran to escape religious persecution but the fact that they kept their religion made them distinct from the rest of India. They were proud Zoroastrians although they adopted the local language, dress and culture (of Gujarat).

India is a melting pot of different genes. There are also indications (and controversies) that groups of Africans migrated to certain locations in South India and intermarried with the locals. We Indians are a mix of many different races.

This mixing is inevitable as we are all of one nationality and we all live together. But even though we know that various races live inside of us, we don’t think about it much. Nor do we know for sure which genes we carry. For some reason our origins are shrouded in mystery and because of the caste tensions people seem hesitant to talk of race and caste. Well, whether we want to know the truth or not, the truth is that we Indians are not of one race.

In a foreign country, it is easy to know if you are a mixed race person and no one hesitates to talk about it. It is interesting to note that in Britain the ‘Mixed races’ are UK’s fastest-growing ethnic group. Due to Britain’s migration policies people of different races settled there years ago and as a result the population profile is changing rapidly.

On current trends, mixed-race babies will soon outnumber those born to black couples in Britain. The last census showed that people of mixed race make up the third-largest minority group behind Indians and Pakistanis. But with half of them aged 16 or younger, they are the fastest growing. In time, people of mixed race will become Britain’s largest ethnic minority.

A time will come when it will become rare to find anyone of purely of one race. India is a prime example of this melting pot which has been churning for thousands of years. Today, if you take the example of the Konkanasthas it will be difficult to find a pure specimen under the age of 25 (going back say over 6-7 generations). Their genes are rapidly merging into the larger pool of the Indian population, not just Maharashtrians. Those who have migrated abroad are mixing their genes with another lot…in another thousand years who knows what will happen. If there will be anyone left who is pure anything.

That is the future of the world.

(Collage is by me and all photos in the collage are by me except the Aishwarya Rai picture, which is from the Ashfanclub)

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61 Comments leave one →
  1. Vivek Khadpekar permalink
    April 15, 2008 9:30 am

    Nita,

    Genetic mingling leading to s variety of anthropological types is perfectly natural in littoral locales that lie along historic trade routes. It is only in very isolated locations — the deep, forested interiors of major land masses; islands separated from continents by thousands of miles of ocean — that genetic/racial purity is possible to maintain. And even in those situations, not too often. Nor is it very desirable in small communities. The risks attendant upon interbreeding are well known.

  2. Vivek Khadpekar permalink
    April 15, 2008 10:04 am

    PS: Corrections — In the last sentence, “inbreeding” not “interbreeding”; and in the first sentence, “…leading to ‘a’, not ‘s’ variety….”

  3. April 15, 2008 10:42 am

    and by looking at the number of asians in the world, most likely the world would be soon be neither white nor black, but beige in color.

    • Esther permalink
      January 1, 2015 4:10 pm

      Exactly and which will make people happier. They won’t need to burn their milky skin with sun baths lol.

  4. Ashwin permalink
    April 15, 2008 10:54 am

    It’s an interesting post, definitely, but your harping on the idea that we’re “all one country, one nationality” blah blah, I think, only creates more problems because no one thinks like this.

    “Race” is only a problem in the West where there is discrimination.

    The fact of that matter is, India, since time immemorial has always cared more about culture/ethnicity and religion (both intertwined, obviously) then they have about blood, although this hardened (caste and race) during the Muslim invasions and during the British times.

    Marathas, especially, have, historically, absolutely no claim on a homogenous society. A better example would’ve been Rajputs who have strict marital laws.

    Even caste acts the same way I feel. Who knows how you came to be what caste you are – Jatt, Rajput, Chitpavan, whatever, a lot of it has to do with culture because you can’t exactly prove blood.

  5. April 15, 2008 11:12 am

    Vivek, as you said trade routes are a route for migration! Interestingly though genetic purity is difficult to maintain, there are groups which try hard to maintain it but nowadays they are failing due to increased mobility of people.

    Ankur, my thoughts exactly.

    Ashwin, thanks for your comment…but hey, we are one country, one nationality whether you like it or not.🙂
    Secondly there is a problem of discrimination in India too because of caste and caste if related to race although some do not agree.
    Thirdly, I have not mentioned Marathas (the Kshatriya caste of Maharashtrians) at all in my post, so I am a bit flummoxed by your reference.
    Fourthly, I can’t agree that blood cannot be proved. Today scientific techniques of DNA can prove blood. In fact I don’t think you can prove culture as people take on the culture of the place they migrate to.

  6. April 15, 2008 11:49 am

    @Ankur,Nita: If everone would be beige: That way all the people will actually match with the color of the car interiors etc, natural camouflage.

  7. April 15, 2008 11:57 am

    >>> India is a prime example of this melting pot which has been churning for thousands of years.<<<

    So hopefully with mixed-race faces in racial nations, the way of identifying / defining people with who is ‘”black” and who is “white” label gonna go blurred.

  8. April 15, 2008 12:16 pm

    good post…..inter breeding of races will I think lead to a more equal world

  9. April 15, 2008 1:32 pm

    great post, Nita!

    Did you mention that mixing DNA gives the physical beauty?🙂
    As I wrote on my post on Russian woman, Russians are also quite a mixture of many races. This is mostly the reason for the facial beauty. Since my childhood I was considering Indian as the most beautiful people in the world! – and I still do.

    Another thing is about the title of the article:The world will be of mixed race one day.
    I remember reading one prediction which says that in 1000 years the whole world will be one race, looking like this: tall, peach-skinned, light eyes and generally beautiful people… And, hopefully living in peace with each other🙂
    Looking at the growing popularity of the inter-cultural / inter-racial marriages worldwide, I can easily believe that!

  10. April 15, 2008 1:54 pm

    Oh yes, I would definitely like my great grandchildren to be Green-eyed and white as flour.😆
    I am always telling my parents that they should not be adverse to the idea of me getting married to a French of German girl. But all I get it a hard, cold stare.😐

    • aaj permalink
      January 2, 2015 11:47 pm

      self hate , …………….so sad

  11. April 15, 2008 2:14 pm

    Anshul,🙂

    Bharath, yeah a time will come when there will be no mixed race lable either, because everyone will be of mixed race!🙂

    Rahul, I am sure we human beings will find something else to browbeat others!

    Axinia, I do know that mixing of DNA of different races makes the progeny more healthy but I am not sure about the beauty part. Also, I have not read anywhere that people will be peach skinned in another 1000 years. In any case, I don’t believe that, even if it were desirable! The dark genes are more dominant and it is likely that most people will be a nice brown, not peach. I also find light eyes not at all beautiful in fact I find them eerie. guess it is a cultural preference. But dark eyes are more dominant and eventually those with light eyes will reduce in number.

    Amit, if it wasn’t for that smilie I would have been worried!🙂 But if you ask me nothing is as beautiful as a smooth brown skin, black fathomless eyes and shiny black hair. That’s just my personal preference.🙂

  12. April 15, 2008 2:15 pm

    I like to believe more in the Darwin’s theory of evolution. So, we are already a single race! as we have descended from …… well iam not supposed to use that extremely racial word….. yeknom (dont read it from right to left), or if you want an easier clue…… monkeyyyyyyy (dont omit the six y’s inbetween). 🙂

    Destination Infinity

  13. Joss permalink
    April 15, 2008 3:27 pm

    I was recently having trouble explaining to my son the definition of the word ‘race’. Because, forever, we have all been mixed race. Peoples of the world have been migrating, or trading, since the bronze age at least, and racial characteristics have never been stable. I myself am 15/16 Caucasian, and 1/16 Asian, and that’s just the bit I know about! The only thing that we can describe with any certainty is the colour of people’s skin, which of course is a very superficial judgment and not of any value. I, therefore, am white. But I agree with Nita that ‘nothing is as beautiful as a smooth brown skin, black fathomless eyes and shiny black hair.’ Oooh, I’m thinking of … a very long list!

  14. April 15, 2008 3:57 pm

    I’m spanish (well, catalan, in fact) I have always found indian people very atractive, I realised that, in my opinion, they have kind of european feature in the faces mixed with dark and shinny skin.
    For example: black people in general have specific features (nose, mouth, teeth), also chinese, japanese (this are the most evident examples) but indians feature are in many cases quite “western”…then their PURPLE skin, let u know they are indian. Thats a great mix I think! Beautiful people!

    I love your blog, Nita. Very interesting!!!

  15. April 15, 2008 4:42 pm

    funnily enough we have people who talk of “pure blood”…….and also what community we belong decides what we have to follow…sometimes it is just too much to carry around…

  16. April 15, 2008 4:50 pm

    I welcome the idea of the whole world as a melting pot. It resonates with my idealistic and naive values. 🙂

    By the way, so far as I’ve heard, Nita, the term “race” has no meaning in biology when referring to humans. That’s to say, to a biologist, races don’t exist. However, I can’t recall the explanation for that bit of trivia. Maybe one of your other readers will help out.

  17. April 15, 2008 5:30 pm

    I’ll take the opposite position Nita. I think as the world becomes more accessible, more and more the ethnic lines are hardening. No matter the ‘race’ or ‘culture’, more and more, purity is desired when seeking mates. Skin tone is more important when it matches than when it’s different. Skin color trumps religion or culture nearly every time.

    @Paul. You are correct from the standpoint of DNA. There are no races between humans because the markers which result in skin, hair and the like are very few and random. The only race is the differences in primates, such as humans to chimpanzees.

  18. krenim permalink
    April 15, 2008 6:53 pm

    Lets not get carried away race is an identity that won’t melt away in the forseable feature,the west may have become far more relaxed about it but let us not forget that the west is <10% of humanity and even here to say that we live in a post race world is silly.
    in other regions such as china,africa and the arab world race is still a very important factor as far as identity is concerned.

    As for the stated belief that race has no scientific basis well I beg to differ I mean from a scientific standpoint our DNA is 97% that of a chimpanzee so how many consider chimpanzees 97% human?The point is we don’t understand exactly which part of the human genome is responsible for what therefore one is in no position to comment on whether there is a scientific concept of race or not we know there are markers for eye colour,hair colour etc but I frankly don’t believe in the theory that all this is because of climate induced mutation just to give you an example the arabs who have been living in the desert for at least 10,000 years are significantly fairer than senagalese who have been living in a near mediteranean climate the native americans and eskimos who have been living in a north european type climate for atleast as many years are actually darker than most chinese who have been living in asignificantly warmer climate
    In addition it is hard to fathom a climatic condition which could split humanity very broadly into caucasians and mongoloid sub types.

  19. April 15, 2008 8:39 pm

    absolutely fantastic post!!! very well thought out. I’ll agree with you Nita and say that Yes, Mixed Race is the next big thing for humanity (if it survives that is)!

    an eternal pessimist Roop hehe

  20. April 15, 2008 8:59 pm

    This writing made me think back on my lifelong fascination with ‘differences’ especially in the variety of details in which my own species is manifested. I, for one am a stew of Georgian Russian, German, Greek, Hungarian and who knows, maybe generations back, possibly Ottoman Turk had been added to the mix. I hope that in the case of future blending of varietals of our group we dont lose the richness in a bland , beige soup of humanity. But i doubt that can happen, and that permutations of our characteristics will provide the neccessary spice of “difference”. G

  21. April 15, 2008 9:44 pm

    Interesting post. Much more interesting than the reviews of copycat movies!😉
    I read recently that all blue-eyed people are related genetically to each other. Can’t give a reference off-hand, though!

  22. manu permalink
    April 15, 2008 11:52 pm

    Just a thought: We all believe in the Caucasian concept of beauty because they had the resources to propogate the idea that Caucasians are the most beutiful ones. Supposing Africans were the ones with all the resources and had they spread their concept of beauty, then everybody right now would have wanted to have African features.

  23. Guqin permalink
    April 16, 2008 12:13 am

    I think this idea is deceptive in several ways:

    1). Scienticfically.
    Consider the simple example below

    A) 1, 3, 5, 7, 9….
    B) 2, 4, 6, 8, 10 …..

    Matching the terms in A and B, the difference in each pair is 1, that is 2 -1 =1, 4-3=1, etc. Yet the difference between any two terms in either A or B is at least 2, eg. 3-1=2, 10-2=8 etc. Does that mean A and B are not well defined? No! A is the set of all odd numbers and B all even numbers. I agree with Krenim with his example with the Chimpanzee and human.

    I am 100% sure scienticists are aware of this (basic logical thinking, if not, not a true scientist, at least not a mathematician), then why they pretend not to know and pretend that race doesn’t exist? That lead to my second point

    2) White men’s embarrassment.
    They have committed so many racial crimes, a way out is to say that race does not exist. I have been seeing this sort of mentality again and again in USA. I am not going to exploit it here.

    3) More may not mean richer, more often, it means mediocrity. Mixing all colors in an artist’s palette, we get grey. I have seen very beautiful eastern European girls and African girls, their beauty are the results of their uique racial chacracters. To me, east Asian girls are the more attractive, and with very lasting youth. These qualities shouldn’t be mixed out either.

    4) False ideology.
    We can be different and respect either other, or we can tolerate each other only when we look the same. The later is a false kind of idealism. Not sure how this came up in other parts of the world, again, in Northern America, it has something direct to do with the white men’s hypocrisy and stubborness of refusing a true confession. Again, do not want to exploit it here.

  24. April 16, 2008 1:26 am

    on Kobras , i was given this exp also by my mom and i found something similar
    kokanstha

    i for one believe in the out of India theory
    wiki

    some people might also brand u as upper caste elitist due to ur usage of word brahmin 6 times
    u mentioned the bunts but not the saraswats of the same region they have an interesting history too
    u should also read about the dards of ladakh/ drass etc

    overall this is a great post and i must say u have done a lot of hard work on this one🙂

  25. April 16, 2008 7:40 am

    Destination Infinity, don’t hesitate to use that word!🙂 You know we use the term liberally in India and it’s not an insult!

    Joss,
    as you said it’s what one looks like that one becomes.

    Francina, thank you!🙂

    Vishesh, reminds one of Harry Potter doesn’t it!

    Paul, I am not a biologist so I cannot say. But finally it is the superficial characteristics that distinguish us, like Josh said.

    Brian, I see your point. I guess when minorities are small in number no one really cares, but once they start becoming a dominant feature, people start becoming more conscious of it.

    Krenim, I too am not convinced by the climate theory. But it must play a part. And no one is saying that there will be a post- race world, not really. If it ever happens in a couple of thousand years I am sure we will find some racial characteristics to distinguish humanity by.

    Roop Rai, thanks.

    Gugin, thanks for the detailed comment.

    Suburban, you are right we won’t really be one colour! The beige was mentioned in a light manner. In fact India is an example of the fact that people will never be of one colour or one type.

    Rambodoc,
    I am sure that’s true, about the blue-eyes. But only if you go back long enough I am sure all of us too will find some common ancestor!

    Manu
    you are right, but I personally do not believe in the caucasian idea of beauty. I have seen stunningly beautiful African women and I have lived in Africa for many years. In fact I think many people of caucasian origin too share this feeling and the number of inter marriages between black and white people are proof of that. I think it is mostly Indians who have this strange idea that only pale skin is beautiful.

    Prax, thanks but no I didn’t take too long to write this one.🙂 Just been thinking of it for some time. About the Out of India theory that the so-called ‘Aryans’ were original inhabitants of this country, well I have an open mind. I too personally am very suspicious of the idea that some group of Aryans migrated to India in pre vedic times.
    About the Brahmin word, I am not afraid to write the word Brahmin. And Prax, if some idiot thinks that writing about a Brahmin community like the Chitpavans makes someone an elitist, I cannot help them🙂

  26. April 16, 2008 8:54 am

    🙂 well as u said in a prev post Someone had flamed u and said you write in english because ur elitist brahmin.
    🙂 l like most of what u write

    Well Prax, that was on one of my posts on reservation and in fact I had written that I am pro-reservation if it is based on economic considerations! So you can guess what a retard that person was because he wanted the elite of the castes (rich people) to benefit from reservations! Well, I can’t do anything about stupid brainless people can I! – Nita.

  27. lallopallo permalink
    April 16, 2008 10:21 am

    Very interesting and informative post. This is one of my favourite topics to research and read about. Since recorded history, India has gone through numerous invasions and movement of all sorts of people/races. Caucasions ( Aryans , Greeks, British), Middle Eastern ( Arabs, Afghans), Persians, Turks , Mongols ( Changez khan) & even Africans ( Some evidence suggests that original inhabitants of Indian subcontinent ( known as dravidians ) trace their roots to Negroid races of Africa.
    I agree that Aryan theory is debated, but is still the most widely accepted theory by many historians.
    Iam pretty certain that quite a few Indians are coming from mixed ancestaries & nobody can really pin point the exact source. I never thought about it much until I realized that -probably due to my different skin tone & features- I am almost always taken as a Spanish, Arabic or mixed rather than an Indian by people here. Besides, there are some people among my close relatives ( my first cousin sister & one of my chacha) who have very fair complexion plus blue/light eyes & who could easily pass off as pure caucasians..on the other hand, their other brothers/sisters look like regular Indians.
    And, none of my grandparents, great gp’s or even further ancestors I know of were non-Indian. Iam not sure from where it is coming from…they say that sometimes a gene can show up even after 10 generations!!
    I started noticing that how some Indians -especially Punjabis/Kashmiris- could easily pass off as Persians/Turkish/Spanish and vice versa.
    Living in one of the most multicultural cities of the world, I live and intereact closely with almost whole of the world everyday.
    I realize that though at many levels people coming from different cultures/countries could be quite different from each other, but fundamentally we are ridiculously similar and , more importantly, are becoming more and more similar in other subtle dimensions too. Is it because of more mobility in terms of both human and intellectual capital? I am not sure…
    I remember some time back I was discussing all this with an extremely well read and perceptive 77 years old American friend of mine & he remarked that 500 years from now, there would have been so much mixing of races that most people will have uniform coffee color complexion. And then, he said jokingly to me, ‘ person of your skin color will be a white man in that society’..
    But, I guess I would love to have that coffee complexion instead..

    On a different note, Iam amazed at your ability to blog so comprehensively & just for the love of expressing/sharing your views…I wonder if this is your full time vocation or you do it along with some other job/full time commitment..
    Whatever, Congrats for the good work!!

  28. April 16, 2008 10:43 am

    Lallopallo, thanks for sharing your personal experience. Like you, this issue interests me a lot too, and I have been thinking of it a lot for many years in fact. Mostly I have been a little confused about it all as very little information is available on the subject. There is no doubt that many Punjabis share genes with Caucasians, but how exactly one doesn’t know. My feeling is that if we assume that the Aryan Invasion theory is wrong (just an assumption!) then couldn’t it be possible that people from Europe and Central Asia migrated to North India and mixed with the local population. And we know that the Mughals were fairskinned and tall.
    We have these type of people in our family too, from my dad’s side. Extremely fair with light eyes, but while my brother seems to have inherited the brown hair and light tan eyes I haven’t. I guess when his genes combined with my sister-in-law who is very white and comes from a family of white skinned green-eyed people, their progeny got the same characteristics. Interestingly, my sis-in-law’s sister who is even whiter than her and has deep green eyes has regular looking black eyed and black haired kids and that is because her husband is on the darker side. No doubt the dark genes always dominate.
    I agree with you on the mobility aspect. It’s the mobility which is making us more similar. Today I could easily fit into American society, at least superficially, as I have some western values.
    And thanks for that appreciative note about my blog. Well, I blog about 3 hours a day on an average, but that includes everything, fiddling around with the template, widgets, reading other blogs, answering comments etc. The actual research and writing at times takes up to 4 hours a day and at times just an hour. Often I research several subjects at a time and write about 4-5 posts at a time. Not fully, just parts of them.
    I do some other work, but that is part-time. I guess that makes my blogging also part-time as well. But I do put in a lot of effort and I do it for the love of it. Thank you Lallopallo.

  29. April 16, 2008 1:56 pm

    This is a very interesting topic. Great post!

  30. April 16, 2008 5:31 pm

    Imagine if: 1 day, ‘Mixy -Mixies’, (‘Mixed- Raced’ people), like myself, ‘were even more Powerful, then the ‘whites”, -thus ‘ruling the World’, As ‘the PURE -Whites’, DO NOW!!!!!!
    India, should ‘ve ‘Unity’, in my opinion. It should have -any citizens, who enter it and/or who live in it, have to sign -up to: ‘Patriotism -Agreements’, to ‘do what is best, for the Nation’ and also; – Mahatma Ghandi, said that -‘It is time, for an Indian Flag, for which, -All Indians, no matter -what Religion/Background -all people, in -India, should live and die for’; in -relation, to ‘the Founding, of the Indian Flag’. I also- think, this should apply to: ‘N.R.I.s’ and All of ‘Asia’, With a ‘United Asian Flag’ and there should be -‘N.R.A.’s’, – ‘Non -Resident Asians’, who -‘support it too’!!
    Best Regards -Mike/Kavey.
    P.S.: Please read -up, on my other -work. http://www.myspace.com/michaelshenton

  31. April 16, 2008 8:30 pm

    Calling a fellow human,a monkey, is indeed an insult Nita. Insult to the monkey!🙂

    Destination Infinity.

  32. lallopallo permalink
    April 17, 2008 8:13 am

    Nita, thanks for your follow up comment to my comment. Yes, I agree that people from Europe & central Asia might have come to India at some point of time rather than so called Aryans coming around 1500 BC..infact, some of the historians have now started to believe that there was no race such as Aryans..
    There are many possibilities….

  33. vinay permalink
    April 17, 2008 10:11 am

    More than europeans coming and mixing with us, I think it has to do with variations in pigmentation. This link sums it up:

    http://panaryan.com/forum/showthread.php?t=400

    Here you can see blue eyed tamilian, blond haired africans etc. The invasion and mix up theory for the existence of certain features in the people is just an incomplete research, I think.

  34. April 17, 2008 10:42 pm

    I am a Ko Bra and I have seen a totally puzzled look on people’s faces when I tell them I am Indian. Even in Israel nobody was willing to accept that. Your post makes a very interesting reading Nita (and partly because I can associate myself with this mixed races thing) !

  35. Vivek Khadpekar permalink
    April 17, 2008 11:51 pm

    Nita,

    (This comment is being posted late because my server was down for a few days)

    Your response to Ashwin, “… I have not mentioned Marathas (the Kshatriya caste of Maharashtrians) at all in my post, so I am a bit flummoxed by your reference … ” is rather surprising.

    I believe he is using the term Maratha in its original sense — inhabitants of the Maharatta country (i.e. Maharashtra); speakers of the Marathi language. This is how most non-Maharashtrians interpret it, because that is how it is used in the history books. The sense of the term that you refer to is a post-Shivaji — perhaps even post-Peshwai — creation. Even the Peshwas (1713-1818), who were Chitpavan Brahmins, were covered by the term Maratha.

    As to the Maratha caste, it is generally accepted by scholars across the ideological spectrum that they were originally agriculturists. The martial achievements of their caste-fellow Shivaji and, later, several others, inspired them to proclaim themselves as Kshatriyas. The equation {Maratha=Kshatriya} is thus of relatively recent origin (less than three centuries).

    It is well known that Shivaji’s coronation ran into an obstacle because the Brahmin pandits of Maharashtra refused to crown him on the grounds that he was “not a Kshatriya”. This impasse was resolved with the intervention of a learned Brahmin from Kashi (Varanasi).

    Even today, while the subject is no longer one of debate in Maharashtra, the orthodox Rajputs (Suryavanshi, Somavanshi and Agnivanshi alike) do not readily concede the Kshatriya credentials of Shivaji and, by extension, of the Maratha community.

  36. A darker shade of Indian:) permalink
    April 24, 2008 10:44 pm

    interesting article…the one thing I would like to point out is that…if we are speaking of racial disparity…then we DO need to take a look at Darwins theory of evolution…My take on the whole issue is that due to the natural progression of the earths climate…eg. more trapped gasses and sunlight, we will need protection from these extremes in the future…lets say 100 years…now if we are thinking 1000 years then we need to think seriously about protection from the environment…what does that leave us you ask? well, probably the humans that will be able to thrive in these conditions will be the darker skinned brethren of the earth…while the lighter skinned humans will have difficutly surviving the extremes…we can see it now with the white Australians that have a higher degree of skin cancer than anyone else..So basically, I hope my progeny has my natural melotinin protection and I advise the rest of the world to find a mate that can give your children the blessings of a natural sun protectant…I hope my kids are a nice shade of copper :)———–

  37. April 28, 2008 1:54 am

    “Race” is only a problem in the West where there is discrimination. This Quote, is untrue. Unfortunately, many people, in India, ‘re ‘racist, to the black people’, however, under terms, like -‘Darky’/’Coloured’, what ‘Pure- Whites’/even other people, used, to put us down, we should ‘unite together, to fight our 1 common enemy; Nazism’……
    Even ‘Mixed- Raced’ people, like me, using terms, like -‘1/2-Caste’/’1/2 breed’, should, be kinder, to ‘darker’/’colored people’, ‘migrants’ and other-groups. ‘Nazis’, hope, to ‘defeat -us’, too!!

  38. risingnation permalink
    May 10, 2008 3:47 pm

    Living in the west (the US) for many years and observing and interacting with people,a view on how the matter of race of a person is decided:
    Definition of white vs colored a) you must not have non-white physical characteristics- kinky hair, colored skin, thick lips, broad nose b) you must not have non-white blood, which includes Asian,African, Native blood. The one-drop theory which states that a single drop of (inherited) non-white blood classifies you as colored. Most of the European countries also follow this rule for discrimination. Globally whites are at the top of the spectrum (with light skinned people at the top in non-white countries) with blacks (or darkskinned) being at the bottom in most countries. To uphold their ascendancy, they have purported the view that skin-color based caste structures existed in countries prior to colonization. It is the other way round, they prevailed because colonial interests supported and propogated them aggressively. The Aryan Invasion was one of the myths created by western interests. In fact, there was no invasion but largely peaceful (with occasional skirmishes between tribes) downward movement of pastoral tribes called Aryans who hailed from Central Asia and Afghanistan. They mixed with the local indigenous population though significant part of their culture, language and traditions dominated over the locals. There was lot of give and take between the Aryans and the local tribes and lot of intermixing. Lot of other races also arrived and intermixed with the local populations at different periods. This is proof of the racial, skin tone, genetic diversity in the current Indian popuation. Moreover a person’s caste was based on the varna or division (occupational division, not skin color which also means varna) of the person.

  39. Sagar Vaze permalink
    July 1, 2008 9:00 pm

    I think the question of a Portuguese gene pool is irrelevant as the Chitpavan Brahmins have a history that predates the arrival of the Portuguese in India. Also unlike the Nordic races with which the Chitpavans share some features, the Portuguese belong to a Mediterraneans race.
    Also none of these studies have addressed the questions why Chitpavans (having green eyes, fair skin etc) don’t posses a light color of hair like the true Nordic races.
    The Australian aborigines posses blond hair. Does this make them immigrants from say east Europe
    I too am chitpavan but have jet black eyes and a slightly stuuby nose. I do have fair skin. Does this make me 1/4th European while my cousins who have green eyes and a pointed nose and fair skin are 3/4th European. Come on, we all are Indians.

    Thanks for your comment! Ofcourse we are all Indians…it’s just that one likes to know where that white skin came from!🙂 – Nita.

  40. Ravi permalink
    July 2, 2008 7:01 am

    Im kind of surprised to see some andhrities are fairer, infact I have observed this with in the same caste. I cannot conclude that people belong to this particular caste are fairer than others. How is it possible could someone explain this?

    Dont be surprised to see my next comment….. “I dont feel like Indian anymore…lol”

  41. Mahajan permalink
    July 22, 2008 6:45 am

    Interesting article Nita!Something that I have been curious about all my life.I am on the fairer side,but wont be classified as fair with black hair and brown eyes,average Indian features.
    My sister on the other hand is really fair and has the classic blue eyed Kobra features.She had a shock of golden hair at birth,but later on in life it turned into a very light brown.People are still surprised at her childhood photos.My uncle and his wife are both with typical Indian features with brown eyes and black hair,but all their 4 kids were born with green eyes!Amazing how nature works.
    Regarding the history of Kobras,it is probably before the Portugese arrived.From what my grandfather used to tell me,Kobras are derived to Ashkenazi Jews,who either came there from the sea as traders or were shipwrecked !
    Even today there are a few Jew communities along the Alibaug to Ratnagiri coast.A lot of them have migrated to Israel in the last 50 years,so not many of them around anymore.
    I am all for intermixing!Let nature work its wonders on the human race.

    thanks for sharing that! – Nita.

    • Ammadio permalink
      June 23, 2009 4:44 pm

      Konkanastha Brahmins (Kobras) are certainly not Ashkenazi Jews (AJ)
      1) Jewish people in India maintained their faith thoroughout. Even today they continue to do that.
      2) The Kobra features do not match the AJ features.

      They look more slavic to me ofcourse with a good mixture of local population over a period of years.

      Just as the Kobras, many of the Tamil speaking Iyengars in TN and Karnataka also have light eyes and tend to very fair.

      • Joglekar permalink
        May 21, 2012 4:59 pm

        The iyengars are Supposedly chitpavans. Who migrated to. Tamil nadu as practicing priests

        • May 21, 2012 7:10 pm

          I have no doubt about it. And these “chitpavans” themselves originated from North Asia, Indo-gangetic plains. There is no evidence or record of chitpavans beyond 1000-1200 years ago in ancient Indian books. They were foreigners who migrated and amalgamated.

  42. advait permalink
    August 24, 2008 8:57 pm

    Nitaji one certain comment from you scared me.

    “My feeling is that if we assume that the Aryan Invasion theory is wrong (just an assumption!) then couldn’t it be possible that people from Europe and Central Asia migrated to North India and mixed with the local population.”

    Do you advocate AIT?

    I have no idea what you mean by “advocate.” If I don’t know about something, or am not sure, how can I advocate of not advocate it? – Nita

  43. Vijay Marathe permalink
    September 2, 2008 8:07 pm

    I am really happy to learn that I being a Konkanstha might have the same genes as those of a distant Nordic or European race.

    Indeed the world is a global village.

  44. ~~~~~~ permalink
    February 10, 2009 6:44 pm

    interesting note on mixed races. I agree with you that the world will become of mixed race one day…globalization, easy travel will make all that possible. Out of curiosity, do you have pictures of Indian people who are of “mixed blood” ? I am curious how an Indian blood and say a westerner would look like. Probably beautiful people.

  45. Maria permalink
    March 9, 2009 11:42 am

    Hi to everyone.
    Im a woman from Spain who married to an indian man. Two years ago we had the most beautiful baby girl. Everybody tells us how pretty she is, but unfortunately nobody thinks she is half indian, even if she looks a lot like papa. She is very fair and not very dark hair either. My husband is from the North of India, but he looks 100% indian (that is why i think he is so good looking). For me, people from India are generally beautiful. But after my baby, i realize how great mixed people usually look.

  46. Ammadio permalink
    June 23, 2009 4:37 pm

    1) Aryan theory is hogwash. It is a myth.
    2) There have been numerous migrations into and from India since time immemorial. Some of the known migration followed by ruling is a) Parthians b) Kushan c) Scythians and to some extent Bactrians. These ofcourse occurred more than 2000 years ago. When their empires collapsed, they did not pack their bags and leave. Many of them had adopted Buddism and then later followed the Hindu faith. The bottomline is these central asian/persian people became a part of mainstream India. Primarily North and Northwest India.
    3) We do not know much about the movement of people into India in the first millenium during the Gupta and Chola period.
    4) As time passed, there were a lot churns. Chalukyas and Rashtrakutas from Karnataka moved up north to the present Maharashtra and Madhya Pradesh. As Chola kings expanded there empire till southern Orissa so did his army and others. Remember, after the downfall of an empire, people just dont pack their bags and leave. They remain and depending on their population either localize or create there own group.
    5) During the Vijaynagara rule his army and people spread all across.
    6) During the Maratha regime, his army and people were up in Indore and also in Thanjavur in TN.
    So, as you can see there is a lot of churn.

    India is indeed a mixed race nation. It is good to know the history but it is better to call ourselves Indian and move one. DNA analysis does nothing other than telling which homogenous cluster we are closer to which means nothing as most of our neighbours are not the same race as those who migrated to India a 2000 years ago.
    Take Iran or example. Todays Iran has a lot of Arabic and Turkish pool in them especially after the advent of Islam, Iran is not the same.

    A wider genetic pool is something we should be proud of.

    Jai Hind.

  47. rohit paliwal permalink
    May 3, 2010 1:42 pm

    even tough there will be lot of mix raced people but still there will be white ,black people

    we believe that a black and white mix results in beige or inbetween colored kids only
    but that’s not completely true a mix raiced couple can create a completely white or dark kid also.

    so no matter how much mixing we do there still going to be people and race will exists

    it just mixraced will start existing in good numbers

    other point to look at is

    the population in 1800 year was about 978 million which increased to 6,707 in 2008

    so this figure itself indicates that a small group of people can alone create large population of similar in 100 or 200 year time peiod.

  48. Iram tayyab permalink
    April 4, 2011 3:59 pm

    Beautiful article on mixed races. Indeed within India there is so much diversity and chances of inter mixing.I am a kashmiri and am married to a guy from UP. I have a fair complexion and my husband has dark complexion. i am curious to know how our children will look.hmmm! we will have hybrid, a mixed race interesting!!!

  49. jai permalink
    July 27, 2011 10:43 am

    I’m a brahmin from punjab very fair complexioned. nobody believed i was indian when i went abroad. As far as India serving as an example of a racial melting pot, the world would do well by learning from our mistakes instead of following us. Racial mixing has been India’s downfall. India is a filthy country thanks to the mixing of races. When you look at the quality of ancient hindu literature, architecture etc one can very well see modern Indians either mixed or of the inferior races are the mere recipients of that once mighty culture, not it’s creators. They donot even display an understanding of the ethical or other concepts which they claim as their culture. India’s average IQ’s are closer to Africa than to Europe thanks to the national average brought down by inferior races. Thats why we remain a poor country. No wonder they carry the same affirmative action begging bowl as the africans. All races are not equal and mixing only destroys the superior. What should happen in India is a revival of pure upper caste communities. Nothing short of a eugenics program will change India.

  50. tony permalink
    December 17, 2011 9:57 pm

    Hello I am not a chitpavan brahmin but a hindu khatri living in delhi for three generations.I always assumed punjabis were the fairest people in india.I had sporadically travelled to different parts of india and always noted people tend to get darker if you move any direction from punjab within india.even brahmins of north india tend to be medium brown sometimes light brown and very rarely will approach color of aishwariya rai let’s say.seven years back I came to pune to study law and was surprised to see the beautiful girls in the post localities here.and I did some reserch and found chitpavans have a way more recent migration to india then the other brahmins and upper castes and so maybe are the fairest group in india.they number just one million or so and are heavily concentrated in punw followed by mumbai.and you are right there gene pools are getting diluted as I am told they are increasingly marrying other marathi brahmin groups.also being well educated they also tend to marry people from all over india a lot. I suspect by the end of this century they would have lost their distinctive look and would look like normal brahmins. Depending on your viewpoint you can call it good or bad.anyway I am a little responsible for diluting your gene pool.for I married a beautiful chitpavan girl.she has brown eyes but has milky white complexion and looks like a brunette russian maybe.for she has a hint of oriental look in her largely european features.now that is intriguing in itself!

    If you study the origins of this colouring you will find that not just chitpavans but even karhade brahmins are European in origin. This has been proved by DNA analysis of these brahmins. There are private companies today which do this analysis. Our family has also got this done. They also give you statistics of the percentage of those of European origin amongst different indian ethnic groups. These fair and light eyed people are the descendants of a group of east European who migrated to India about 1200 years ago and went down along the coast of western india, not just maharashtra. The chitpavans did not mix as much as the “karhades” and so their gene pool is purer. The origin is Indo-synthian. You will find a lot of north indians too with this origin as the foreigners came from the north-west of India. If you are interested you can get your own dna analysed to find out your origins.

    • tony permalink
      December 17, 2011 11:15 pm

      Haha you reply quick.you may have a point.by the way I am a pujabi khatri myself so I know all about north india.I am fair skinned and tall and may pass for a sicilian.generally speaking fair punjabis look west asian or mediterranean.chitpavans and as you say sometimes kharade brahmins look more euro to me.also they may have picked some oriental genes on the way.

    • aag permalink
      June 21, 2012 2:57 pm

      Yes you are right! The Karhades are also fair and light eyed like the Chitpavans – i am a mix of both rthese races and while i have the pale skin and light brown hair , my brother has the grey green eyes. Incidentally I am married to a Saraswat Brahmin (origins from near Mangalore who is also as fair and light eyed and his side of the family/community are also the same – does it have something to do with all three communities being from the coastal area? It is believed that the Chitrapur Saraswat community migrated from Kashmir region.

  51. tony permalink
    December 17, 2011 10:57 pm

    Hye nita I will add a further point.you are right the very fairest chitpavans are all old people.very rarely you will see someone that fair so young.there are various reasons for this.even chitpavans are not a homogeneous group.50 percent look like normal brahmins.the other half tend to be from the richer families.lots of the young people have gone abroad or have dispersed widely around india leaving older people in centers like pune and mumbai.secondly as I said earlier they are marrying non chitpavan marathi brahmins a lot.and even other upper castes from around india.but both these reasons may not adequately account for the drastice change.so I have thought up another reason.let’s say in some sub regions within konkan maharahtra or even certain vilage or locality there are lots of very fair chitpavans.in others more regular looking ones.ofcourse it would have happened in the first place because of different levels of admixture to start with.in olden days people tended to marry local so fair and regular chitpavans remain isolated .so many chitpavans maintained their distinctiveness.but in modern times more and more of chitpavans being educated migrated to big cities like pune and mumbai.so lot more intermingling and evening out even within chitpavans! One thing more my father in law is dark and mother in law is very fair.and my wife has three brothers.all look fair but not strikingly chitpavan.only my wife does.a classic case I guess.

  52. Mike permalink
    August 23, 2012 12:48 pm

    Hey read this. I just wonna say I’m black 100% and I love Indian women I don’t know why!! In a good wayyy,But the race of India people is a vast race, u guys are mixed with white, Asian and black. U carry each trait, from those race of people. Look at your hair it the same texture as the Caucasians, and your eye colors some brown some greenish looking. Your cheeks bone structure is either black or Asian, because those are the only 2 races in the world that has has those structures,however Indian women also have different kinds of nose structures. Some structure of the nose look black and most look Asian,however their is Noooo resemblance with the caucasian race in that area. Ok this is another analysis, white people tend to have a more wider waist then most race, and Asian’s have a smaller waist, most Indian women have tiny waist and flat exterior’s. This theory is that Indian women got traits from the white race and the Asian race. Goin forward to, the migration of the race india. The moors, ran Africa long time ago. They had all the gold, all the land they were the top import and export people that inhabited Africa. However they were tricked by the the Europeans who stoled their gold and erase their culture, so that no one really know who they were and what accomplish. Moors were black African educated people. They sailed the seas before christoper Columbus. What I’m tryin to say is that Europeans did come and intergrated with the India people, that’s what they did with the black as well. This is how you get the mixed races and over the years Asians did live I. Some parts of the continent of Africa.

    • Nix permalink
      February 6, 2013 9:28 pm

      @ Nita: Good read.

      @ Mike: You’ve provided so many…theories that I lost count four sentences in. I’m Nigerian but my lighter skin, relatively narrow nose, and other (what some would call) non-standard “West African features” have led many an American to ask if I’m African-American, South African, Caribbean, or even Dominican. (I went to an HBCU and got this all the time.) That doesn’t mean that I’m of mixed ancestry–I’m just the product of parents from different southern-Nigerian ethnic groups. (Lower West African terrain made it difficult for foreigners to swoop in until after the middle of the last millennium, so no Moorish blood here LOL.)

      What I’m saying is that the interpretation of facial structure can be misleading, as are questionable accounts of African history. But DNA sequencing, as discussed above, is a whole lot more illuminating and reliable.

      And saying that the Moors once “ran Africa” is nowhere near accurate. (It’s an entire continent, remember?) A quick flick through a couple of history books should clear that up.

      (By the way, most women in the world have flat posteriors. Pronounced butts are mostly found within Africa and its diaspora, and even then there are many women of African descent who have no butts. That doesn’t mean they’ve got Caucasian blood. See what I mean?)

  53. shantanudey@gmail.com permalink
    September 7, 2012 2:41 am

    Being mixed races does not make one healthy. We Indians are far from being the healthiest people in the world. Say compared to the homogenous East Asians we are more likly to die of heart diseases. How do you explain that??? And we Indians suck at Olympic like sports. How is race mixing good? Race mixed Indians were fighting wars with each others for centuries so it does not stop wars as well. Besides I doubt that the world will become mixed race one day because there will be a significant number of White, black and East Asian people numbering in the billions who will opose it. You guys need to read this
    http://erectuswalksamongst.us/Chap30.html

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