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Muslims turning away from terrorism but the world is against them

September 22, 2008
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Surveys have shown that there has been a continuous decline of support for Osama Bin Laden and his brand of politics in Muslim countries. There was even a survey which came up with the finding that more Americans believe that terrorist attacks are justified (under some circumstances) than populations in Muslim countries.

The latest survey from Pew Global has confirmed the growing opposition to suicide attacks in Muslim countries. For example, very few people in urban Pakistan today support “suicide bombing and other forms of violence against civilians to defend Islam from its enemies” (sample size 1254 respondents, mostly urban). In Turkey only 3 percent of respondents support such violence (sample size 1003, national). Graph from Pew Global is given below:

Pakistan, whom the world believes to be a hub of terrorism, does not have a populace which supports such activities, if the Pew survey has any meaning. Well, with horrific attacks like the bombing of Marriot Hotel in Islamabad (more than 60 people dead, more than 200 injured), one wonders if there is any support at all for this kind of mindless carnage. Criminal minds will never change though…and there is sure to be a certain percentage of fanatics in all countries (Muslim or not) who feel that violence is justified for their “cause”.

It is interesting to note that immediately after the 9/11 blasts and the United States attack on Afghanistan, support for terrorist attacks remained fairly high in Muslim countries…in Pakistan the support for suicide attacks was growing rapidly. The American invasion of Iraq in 2003 must have increased these feelings because in 2004, more than 40 percent of Pakistani respondents (of the survey) said they supported suicide attacks. But since then there has been has been a steady decline to a lowly figure of 5 percent today.

Whether Indian Muslims support the idea that “suicide bombing and other forms of violence against civilians to defend Islam from its enemies” is justified we don’t know – this question was asked only of Muslims in Muslim countries. If one has to extrapolate by taking into account the sheer number of Indian terrorists today as compared to a few years ago, then it does seem as if support for terrorist activities is growing in India (while it is falling in other countries). At one time our government could simply blame the “foreign hand” and that was the end of it. Today, even if there are strong suspicions that the foreign hand is behind everything, we are seeing Indian terrorists like never before. It is our people who have been caught for the series of blasts in Delhi and in other Indian cities.

There is a struggle between “modernizers” and fundamentalists in Muslim countries. Almost 50 percent of the respondents (Pew survey) in Turkey, Lenanon, Tanzania, Indonesia and Pakistan felt that such a struggle was going on in their country. As there are no Muslim fundamentalists in power in our country we do not have any such struggle but there is a struggle within the Muslim community in India between the moderates and the fundamentalists…with the latter in the minority.

The killing of innocents by terrorists has created a disgust for them in the mind of Muslimsbut unfortunately the killing of innocents by terrorists has created a hostility towards Muslims. So, while more and more Muslims are turning away from the extremists, more and more people are turning away from Muslims. Here is the Pew Global graph:

These percentages are all higher than those in earlier years. The hostility towards Muslims increased significantly between 2006 and 2008. So while Muslims in all the Muslim countries surveyed were turning away from the idea of using violence to fight for Islam (except Indonesia), non-Muslims were turning against them. This finding may not be a world-wide one, but even if this survey was not taken in other countries I think all of us know the extent of the bias against Muslims, not just in Europe but also in America and India.

Related Reading: Muslim groups speaking out against radical elements
Some opinions of India from Pakistan
Top ten myths about Pakistan unraveled
Failed States of the world
Benazir’s assassination benefited Musharraf
Kashmir – what is the future?

Terrorism- what are the answers?
Does India need POTA?
Pitfalls of stereotyping people

(Photo by AFP PHOTO/Aamir QURESHI and graphs by Pew Global)

75 Comments leave one →
  1. September 22, 2008 8:16 am

    You know, I think the problem with Islamic terror biting the very hands that have traditionally fed them (States like Pakistan, among others) is a reflection not merely of the intellectual poverty of modern day societies (that is unable to influence the people and stop the spread of the terrorist influence), but also of the economic failure of Socialist oriented countries. This last group includes virtually all of the countries of the world, now led by a startlingly activist US Government.

  2. September 22, 2008 9:59 am

    I back doc… and whatever said and done, the majority or terrorists ARE muslims…😦 x-(

  3. vinsome permalink
    September 22, 2008 10:03 am

    Muslims turning against islamic terrorism – now thats a laugh. It is selective delusion when people say islam stands for universal brotherhood and love. if muslims are not fighting the kafirs (the non muslim) they are busy killing each other.

    Look all over the world. all the trouble spots have sizable muslim populations who are engaged in ‘jihad’ against the kafirs.

  4. Vivek Khadpekar permalink
    September 22, 2008 10:28 am

    It is surprising to see Indonesia featured at all in the survey. I was under the impression that although it is a predominantly Muslim country, it has a composite cultural heritage which has traditionally espoused accommodation and peaceful coexistence, and has strong influences of its non-Muslim SE Asian neighbours on its way of life.

    Turkey is an unfortunate case of a Muslim country which embarked long ago (1920s, under the leadership of Mustafa Kemal “Ataturk”) on the path to become a modern, secular state and republic. But despite some reassuring successes, the revolution somehow waned, and although it has not slipped back 80 years in time, it is engaged in an internal struggle between traditionalist and modern forces.

  5. September 22, 2008 10:37 am

    The brand of terrorism that we see in our neighbourhood took birth during the time the Soviets forcibly occupied Afghanistan.

    The USA ran a huge insurgency programme with the active involvement of Gen Zia-ul-haq, the Pak Army, ISI and other Islamic institutions.

    Taliban and Osama have become prominent after this. These outfits were armed to the hilt and trained to fight against the Soviets. They ultimately were successful in evicting them from Afghanistan.

    These units were never disbanded and disarmed.

    It is strange that USA blames Pakistan as being a hub of terrorism. They were active participants in creating this hub in the first place.

    Is it the case that people in Pakistan have started opposing terrorism only when it started hitting them. (The graph shows a sharp dip only in the last year).

    In the Indian context we have to look beyond religion alone. We also have the Naxalite problem and there is no religion involved there.

    Our society is getting polarised primarily between haves and have-nots. Religion has become a convenient tool to incite the have-nots.

  6. Vivek Khadpekar permalink
    September 22, 2008 10:38 am

    Nita,

    //If one has to extrapolate by taking into account the sheer number of Indian terrorists today as compared to a few years ago, then it does seem as if support for terrorist activities is growing in India//

    Just because the number of Indian terrorists has increased, it does not follow that support for terrorist activities is growing. Indian Muslims are as heterogeneous as the entire population of India. The tendency of a small but vociferous section of Hindus to tar them all with the same brush carries the risk of driving them into a corner, and in fact forcing them to take up a unified position whcih they have not until now.

    Ofcourse. Note the first four words of my sentence. I do agree that it has to be looked at from that angle which you say. However I am not sure as to how “unified” they are. – nita.

  7. Vivek Khadpekar permalink
    September 22, 2008 10:44 am

    @ Doc:

    //…the economic failure of Socialist oriented countries. This last group includes virtually all of the countries of the world, now led by a startlingly activist US Government//

    Bravo! I laud your courage in reviewing your long- and fondly-held beliefs. We may be witnessing the birth-pangs of a (Tenuosly) United States of Socialist America🙂

  8. September 22, 2008 10:57 am

    We all know how questions of survey are framed affects their response, so such surveys are not meaningful largely. What people say and what people believe is too difficult to evaluate on such a sensitive topic. Ask me if I hate Muslims, and what do you expect me to say?

    Even if overall trend is declining, it takes less than 1% to create all the havoc in the world we are seeing. What they believe is good for them, what matters me, as non-Muslim, or even as Muslim, who has to constantly live in danger of being blown up, is what I see on ground, in action.

  9. September 22, 2008 10:58 am

    Nita I am not sure if Muslims families ever had any concerns with terrorism. It’s like how much do we have to do with VHP or Bajrang dal. Some misguided student groups, some jobless men, some madarsa trained youth – yes. But an average Muslim probably didn’t care, they were like most other Indians.

  10. September 22, 2008 11:46 am

    From my own experience, middle class, ‘educated’ Hindu Indians are more likely to support the Bajrang Dal/VHP (actually most do) than middle class Muslims support terrorism (most dont). I know some terrorists are educated, young men, but the supporters of the Church-burning, Masjid-destroying Bajrang Dal can be seen in the comments section of many news stories on the internet.

  11. September 22, 2008 12:02 pm

    Nita, you have presented vast amounts of statistical data in this well-researched post, that one cannot argue with. The very concept of “Jihad” has been misunderstood by followers of Islam. The vast number of laity are unable to comprehend that the “jihad” was a call to fight the evil within oneself and not evil as one perceived and whimsically concluded in a fit of fanaticism. You will find that this wisdom is found only in the religious leaders and also prevalent in common people in countries which are on the path to growth more prominently, like Malaysia and Gulf Countries and

  12. September 22, 2008 12:41 pm

    Nita

    I think these surveys of gneral public are irrelevant…the truth is that Pakistan & Afghanistan are hub of terrorism in the world…
    Of course general public in these states has nothing to do with the terrorism as revealed by the survey but this doesn’t alter the fact that these are hubs of terrorism and that’s because of the policies of their government or rather failure of their governance

  13. September 22, 2008 12:55 pm

    Rdoc, economic failure is the key word.

    Sakhi, If one counts the number of innocent people being killed in bomb explosions and not counting the accidental deaths, then this seems to be the case. However when it comes to violent idealogy, there are many groups.

    Vinsome, true trouble spots do disturbingly involve Muslims. They also disturbingly involve dictatorships and/or poor countries.

    Vivek K, I think Indonesia is changing. The terrorist criminals have infilterated the country.

    Mavin, true the United States policies have affected the birth of terrorism, like Indira Gandhi pandering of Bhindranwale in the intial years for political gains made him grow into a monstor. But once its out of control, no use blaming anyone is it. About Pakistan, I am not sure of all the reasons why the Pakistanis have turned away from terrorism, but I think one of the reasons is that once they were hit they realised that terrorists hit anybody. I guess they they though India deserved it because of Kashmir but now they’ve realised that terrorists don’t spare anybody and that violence is not going to get them Kashmir.

    Ashish, these surveys are anonymous so it is likely that people will say they hate Muslims, although that is not the exact word they used n the questionnaire. They used a scale of 1-5 and the words ranged from favourable to non favourable. In any case, as a few years ago less people said they had an unfavourable opinion of Muslims than they have now, so the trend is worth thinking about.

    IndianHomemaker, I too believe that Indian Muslims are not into the violent idealogy, not even 5 percent of them.

    Vikram, I regularly receive some hate comments about Muslims on certain posts (I have already deleted one long comment on this post) from Hindus. It is disturbing to know that even if a particular Hindu is not exploding a bomb, he is hostile towards Islam and Muslims. I also know some middle class Hindus with such prejudices. At the same time I think the majority/minority thing matters. The minority in any country is generally more defensive and mild as compared to the majority. In my view it would be more relevant to compare the views of Muslims in Muslim dominated countries if one has to talk of Muslims and Hindus. For example, Hindus in a Muslim dominated or a Christian dominated country are less likely to express a violent hatred of the majority community. That is what I feel.

    Gopinath, that Muslim terrorists have misinterpreted the word Jihad I have no doubt. I would say deliberately misinterpreted.

    Vivek M, its not irrelevant because the attitude of the public is critical. If the average common man is against the terrorists, the chances are higher that he cooperates with the police, that he reports suspicous movements. Also if non-Muslims believe that all Muslims are terrorists, it can trigger for riots. If Muslims believe that all Hindus hate Muslims, it can trigger riots. Politicians always take advantage of the common man’s sentiment.

  14. September 22, 2008 12:56 pm

    Dear Friends

    May be you are right but recent protest in Jamia Nagar after encounter and comments of clerics raises a doubt in every one’s mind.

    support should be stopped by every muslim.

    I think some of those protests are a sign of denial (the rest are political). Its a psychological thing, that of disbelief. I think Indian Muslims are still to get over the shock that now we don’t have the foreign hand, but we have the Indian hand. – Nita.

  15. September 22, 2008 1:12 pm

    Oh Nita! What a can of worms to open on a perfectly beautiful Monday. We are all responsible for “terrorism”. We form a mob called “society” and then we expect everyone to “fit in”. We form a “state” and then we defend it. All conditioned things are impermanent, it is our own need for stability, peace, harmony, contentment, profit etc that brings this upon us. Religion calms the mind but it also makes you violent when you wake up from the stupor. Is it then not an opiate? If we just all lived our own lives and did what we pleased things would be much easier.

    Religion an opiate…true I think. – Nita.

  16. September 22, 2008 1:57 pm

    The very concept of “Jihad” has been misunderstood by followers of Islam. The vast number of laity are unable to comprehend that the “jihad” was a call to fight the evil within oneself and not evil as one perceived and whimsically concluded in a fit of fanaticism.

    Gopinath,

    Islam allows for both kinds of jihad – one to better oneself, and the other against an outside enemy. Unfortunately, the latter type has become much more popular than the former.
    The word “mujahedeen” implies a group of Muslims engaged in a jihad, as many of them were in Afghanistan against Russia. Besides, all religious books and rulings are vague and flexible enough so that their followers can easily find justification for their actions.

  17. September 22, 2008 3:10 pm

    I have always believed that in such sensitive and potentially explosive matters, people generally avoid speaking the truth in front of the media and strangers.

    The PEW survey, carried out in urban Pakistan, is probably misleading. Let us for a second assume that exactly the same question was asked from the well educated urban boys of the India Mujahideen who have been arrested for the Delhi blasts. Is there anyone who thinks that they would have not spoken against the very violence they were unleashing as if it was a game to be enjoyed?

    Having said that, I must compliment you for ferreting all these details and presenting them very nicely.

    You will be surprised how many people speak out openly, specially if they know that what they are saying and doing is acceptable. I have no idea how the Indian Mujahidden would have reacted but is saying that they believe in violence towards the enemies of Islam going to make a Pakistani an outcast in society? – Nita.

  18. September 22, 2008 4:30 pm

    well blowing up others is never justified,but for the educated as the papers claimed to be involved in this mean only one thing,something,is some where wrong..

    I don’t have anything against any community.But there are people whom we all are bound to hate,it lies somewhere,in their memory,embedded during their childhood..

    educated people can be criminals and psychotic too. – nita.

  19. September 22, 2008 4:40 pm

    I am not surprised by the result of the survey Nita. Muslims are themselves at the receiving end of terrorism perpetrated by misguided Muslims in so many places. In Kashmir and Pakistan the majority is Muslim so the casualties are mostly Muslim. The problem is lack of communication. The moderates are not loud enough and the fanatics are never quiet. The result is the misconception that all Muslims and Islam as a religion preaches terrorism. It may not sound fair but the moderate Muslims need to speak out louder. The process has started. After the recent bomb blasts in Delhi many Muslim groups have expressed their anger against the killers. Lets hope situation improves from here.

    true, they need to speak out but as Shefaly pointed out later, there is the fear factor. – nita.

  20. September 22, 2008 4:55 pm

    I am startled by the fact that, why all the arrested people in the serial blasts case are muslim, why everytime its muslim people behind bomb and sucidial blasts, be it Indian or the so called ;Foreign( read Pakistan) hand.

    I can’t say its the religion, in case you are thinking that. There are violent things in other religions too but they don’t kill in the name of God. This terrorist movement originated in Saudi Arabia due to the political situation there plus sociological factors and the original terrorists go around recruiting and brainwashing people…and ofcoure paying them handsomely, giving them training, looking after their families, giving them a “cause”. Imagine, if someone is a criminal or a thief or plain crooked and twisted, and a terrorist boss comes along with all these things on a platter, he will grab at it! I have no idea why “terrorists” are called terrorists. In my view they are not and I have written about it here. They are criminals and/or psychotic and I simply do not believe they are religious or doing it in the name of God. No normal human being would kill innocent people shopping in a market. – – Nita.

  21. Hafsa permalink
    September 22, 2008 5:24 pm

    You are right , but unfortunately you are wrong too.I am a muslim.Me my family and the whole of the community which i pass through does not believe in terrorism and i know it very well that we can’t fight for our rights by shedding blood.And ofcourse i see no lack of rights towards us; i feel equally accepted like anyone else in my society.What i have to say to the terrorists who are blasting my motherland in search of their imaginary rights is that – when you make an injury in other in name of islam at the very moment you have become a khafir because the almighty never force anyone to be a islam or to follow our rituals.Islam is a religion which teaches to lead a peaceful life in world…and it doesnot need the help of you to SUSTAIN IN INDIA OR ANWHERE ELSE!!Because islam is not just a mere religion but a TRUTH which helps to lead an acceptable life.

    thanks Hafsa, I agree that anyone who kills an innocent is not religious. – Nita.

  22. chirax permalink
    September 22, 2008 5:35 pm

    1254 is the sample size, that is less sample size than the sample size for asking people if they like thumb uoor coke, Its a useless document and urban people for god sakes.

    Anyways do we still believe these terrorist have a religion and terrorist attacks are not political projects for swaying a particular agenda?

    Oil, Land, Trade Tariffs

    Chirax, these surveys always have a margin of error and certainly one should view them critically. However comparing such a survey to a pepsi coke one isn’t right. For those type of surveys there are mass mailing lists, mass requests online, without even the necessity of meeting the person. There is no way that a sensitive opinion survey as done by Pew can ever match the kind of quantity of “I like coke better than pepsi” kind of surveys.
    About the political agenda, ofcourse. I firmly believe that those in the top rung of terrorist attacks have only a political idealogy, they want to rule and they simply use others. – Nita.

  23. astralwicks permalink
    September 22, 2008 5:44 pm

    ban religion for some time. and the gods. might work.

    if only it was practically possible! – nita

  24. September 22, 2008 5:54 pm

    @ Nita and @ Prerna

    That moderate Muslims should endeavour to be heard is a common refrain in this discussion. I have several moderate Muslim friends and in particular, one’s opinions are very valuable to me because she is very liberal in her upbringing (the child of a Nawab and a Hindu woman) and her life choices. She is also a very rare scholar in comparative religious jurisprudence.

    Since the survey mentions urban respondents, it is particularly interesting to mention what she said when we had a discussion about this last.

    She said – As an educated woman, married to an educated Muslim man, living in London, I am aware that my fate is still tied to tribal laws from centuries ago. Technically, my husband can divorce me with a few words and that would be valid. To reject these laws that govern my life would be to reject the basis of my entire identity. This is a nuanced thing. Arguments in the public forums can never be nuanced and that makes it pointless for people like me to even start to make an argument of this kind to those who question us as a community.

    So, you see? Damned if they do, and damned if they do not.

    This is of course one of many reasons why ordinary moderate Muslims do not become more vocal. After all do ordinary moderate Hindus stand up and criticise the RSS/ VHP? Or do Christians apologise for one of their sects, Catholicism, for killing people en masse, or Protestantism for unlawful colonisation of Northern Ireland? Why do we need to single out Muslims for this special requirement?

    Suicide bombing was of course not the product of a Muslim mind but of Hindus, calling themselves LTTE. Surely our standards for criticism haven’t changed so much in all these years?

    Thanks Shefaly for sharing that. Yes, there is certainly a fear of some sort of ex-communication that the ordinary Muslim feels. And true, even though I am against the VHP, I am not going to go out and make a speech against them, I would be afraid. – Nita.

  25. September 22, 2008 5:58 pm

    well its very good if the surveys are accurate and does say what actually people feel ..
    well, i know bias is there when it comes to muslims but not everywhere ..
    There’s point in accusing all muslims for the work the very few among them do..
    the very fact that their has been in an increase in the blasts in muslim countries like pakistan itself shows the diffrence of opinion among them

    there is a bias alright, and everywhere I think now. But not everyone thinks that way – nita.

  26. ulag permalink
    September 22, 2008 6:21 pm

    Its surprising that the survey has included near-neutral states like Jordan, Turkey and Indonesia while leaving out Iran, Saudi Arabia, Syria etc. I think its necessary to ask in what context the support has reduced. It has reduced for cases like Iraq and Afghanistan where there is a near civil war. They see no need for suicide attacks against the people in Iraq and Afghanistan etc.(which explains why Bush’s troop surge strategy is working). But i doubt their support has reduced for organizations like Hamas and their tactics of suicide attacks against Israeli excesses. The same goes for Pakistan. The Pakistani Govt openly condemns terrorism. But terrorism according to them is the activities of the Al-Qaeda in Waziristan. Their tacit support goes on for terrorist groups targeting India because for them these people are just “Freedom Fighters”. I doubt anyone in Pakistan will accept that Jammu&Kashmir was afflicted by terrorism for the last 15 years. The general feeling there instead is that the Indian Army has been carrying out a systematic process of state-sponsored terrorism.

    There are people who are sympathetic to the cause of the terrorist groups, though they do not support violence in any way. This sympathy rises from a “threat perception”. Many people in Pakistan, and indeed in the rest of South Asia, see India as the regional bully which would one day walk in and destroy their nation. And there is a perception that the US supports India over its smaller neighbours just like it supports Israel over Palestine. Ironically in India people view US as having been pro-Pakistan all these years. It is this perception(heightened after the 1971 war) which made Pakistan go all out to acquire a nuclear bomb to “level the playing field”.

    So i think its necessary for these perceptions to be removed from the minds of the people. There is a need for India to build trust among its neighbours. The resolution of the Palestine issue will go a long way in assuaging fears and perceptions of being victims.

    Ulag, thanks. You are right, one needs to see everything in context. generalising is simplification of the issue…but then all of us so crave for some simplification, some understanding! And I agree the motives are very complex too. – Nita.

  27. September 22, 2008 6:21 pm

    Nita, thanks a lot for this very intresting observation and facts!
    You see, image is a great thing – once turned bad, is difficult to repare… And finally it is the innocent people who saffer from the “terrorist” image, not the terrositst themselves.

    once an image has gone bad, difficult to go back! You are so right. Even if terrorism stops today, its going to take a long long time for the image of Muslims to go back to the old image. Its going to take five times the number of years to repair the damage that the terrorists have done to Islam. – Nita

  28. September 22, 2008 8:27 pm

    I agree with the comments of Rambodoc. Certainly there is increasing hostility towards Muslims (as this war on India by misusing the name of Islam)and at this time there is a serious responsibility at the shoulders of Muslims leaders(weather religious or political) to come forward and make a stand against terrorism & make clear where stand.(Till now, we are waiting for such ‘discrete’ statements from the leaders) Even today most of the religious leaders of the community think that 9/11 attack was by Jews not Laden .An action against a member of a community is projected as an action against the whole of the community.Not all muslims are terrorists but at the same time few misguided are and we need to accept this fact.

    These days the biggest thing that Hindus and Muslims share is their distrust on Police and Government.Not since the demolition of Babri Masjid have Hindus and Muslims been so apart in their ways of viewing this bleeding country. Muslims believe that they are the real victims of Jihad in India and everywhere ( while actually,every common man is!) while the Hindus believe that it is because of the ‘Muslim Vote bank’ that terrorism is not dealt more harshly. It appears to be a blind race of ‘Who is the real victim of Jihad?’ when every Indian is becoming a victim of hatred. Its high time that all communities introspect the ills of their own community.

    tarunreflex, I agree with you that the leaders should make a stand, as that is why they are leaders. But today I find many of them are either denying that the criminals caught are guilty or they keep talking of the “reasons” for terrorism. And yes I have read about some muslims believing the conspiracy theories about 9/11. I think as long as they refuse to see the reality, the image of Islam will continue to suffer. – Nita.

  29. September 22, 2008 8:51 pm

    Nita: I find an unreasonable connection between disapproval of suicide bombings (surveys) and terrorist ideology. The Islamic mindset believes that the religion is superior to anything, even the nation. Muslims in Tamil Nadu will be more sympathetic to the bomb blasts in Iraq compared to those in neighboring Bangalore, and indeed – they have demonstrated this in a rally in Chennai recently. Suicide bombing is only one way to express this sense of religious superiority and I disagree that this count indicates that the community is moving away from terrorism. The need is now more than it was ever to convert or kill kaafirs. A practical experience on a Friday outside a mosque, any mosque might help.

    Priyank, that is a good point you made, that disapproval of suicide bombings doesn’t necessarily mean that Muslims are moving away from terrorism, but the question included all violence as a means. Not just suicide attacks. – Nita.

  30. Vivek Khadpekar permalink
    September 22, 2008 8:59 pm

    @ Nita:

    //Religion an opiate…true I think. – Nita.//

    Nitaaa!!!!! YOU agreeing with Karl Marx?????🙂 🙂 🙂

    sure why not? I am an agnostic as you know. And very very irreverent and irreligious. That doesn’t make me a Marxist (I hope!)🙂 – Nita.

  31. September 22, 2008 9:08 pm

    Nita, if you had closely watched the last interview of Salman Rushdie done by Barkha Dutt, you would have recalled what he told her about Kashmir. He spent some time there, if I recall correctly, in 1988, before militancy broke out openly. He said that people he spoke to had told him many things that they refused to say in front of the camera. So, he could not use what they told him privately as material, though it had become clear to him even then where Kashmir was headed.

    This is something which repeats itself time and again, but we who matter don’t ever seem to understand. If everyone was speaking truthfully to TV cameras, India would not have getting caught unprepared by nasty surprises at every turn by terror for over two decades..

    no, I have not watched the interview. But I have lived in Kashmir before terrorism broke out openly and yes the kashmiris openly said they were not Indians and no they would not say it in front of the camera, naturally or they would go to jail. The presence of the army was very strong even at that time and everywhere there were security forces so that is a different issue. I was referring to Pakistan. I doubt whether anyone will go to jail or be socially ostracized if they say they believe in jihad. – Nita.

  32. vinod permalink
    September 22, 2008 9:22 pm

    I have seen plenty of muslims (scholars of important social standing and the laity alike) publicly and privately criticize suicide bombers and suicide bombing. But the media never reported them because they are merely given to sensationalizing.

    Shefaly, suicide bombing was practiced by the IRA even before the LTTE. But ofcourse, they were not called ‘Christian fundamentalists’ and they were not divided as a community of ‘moderate catholics’ and ‘fundamentalist Catholics’.

    Vinod, yes there has been limited reporting of muslim leaders speaking out against terrorism and I have written about it here. – Nita.

  33. chirax permalink
    September 22, 2008 9:29 pm

    @Nita, I admit that comparing such a survey to a pepsi coke one isn’t right. But doesn’t it prove a point? no one cares if you die, but if you loose a dime than suddenly best brains are in.

    Anyways, terrorist have no religion just an agenda.

    couldn’t agree more! – Nita.

  34. September 22, 2008 10:05 pm

    @ Vinod Sharma

    If we are going to go technical, suicide bombing was first used in Iran and Lebanon. The LTTE made it into an art form, with the precision of technique. The IRA never practised suicide bombing. They were known, however, to kidnap individuals and make them detonate as bombs, which can hardly be called “suicide”; “murder bombing” may be a better description.

    Thanks.

  35. September 22, 2008 10:06 pm

    Nita, nobody is sent to jail for saying such things…known Kashmiri separatist leaders have said quite amazingly hostile and “anti national” things on TV. I recall once even the venerable Khushwant Singh was provoked into telling Yasin Malik in a TV programme that it was only in India that he could have the freedom to abuse this country like he was doing on India’s soil.

    You may also recall the recent incidents where Kashmiri mobs were shown calling for death to India and waving Pakistani flags. Terrorism in India can be separated from Pakistan only at India’s peril.

    As I said I have lived in Kashmir. Not as a tourist, but as a resident. People have been arrested for for anti-national comments and worse. It is very arbitary. I think most Indians have no idea what common people in Kashmir have gone through. – Nita.

  36. September 22, 2008 10:21 pm

    @ Nita

    For a related but bizarre perspective on terrorism, see this:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7629417.stm

  37. September 22, 2008 10:22 pm

    @ Vinod Sharma

    Apologies, my comment was for Vinod not Vinod Sharma.:-/

  38. September 22, 2008 10:29 pm

    Shefaly, you make some good points. The fear of causing “fitna” is enough to shut up even the most intrepid Muslims, just as not many Hindus would want to come in the way of Bajrang Dal members trashing a greeting card shop in February even if they know for sure that what BD is doing is wrong. What I find highly amusing is that many of the BD-Feb-activity supporters are also vocal proponents of private property rights, though the irony is probably lost on them. But I have to say that in Indian media/blogsphere, it is easier to find Hindus openly critical of VHP/RSS etc., but one can’t say the same for the Muslim community openly criticizing Deobandis or Barelvis, or certain actions of fellow-Muslims – for reasons you articulated. Those like Shabana Azmi who do dare to speak out against Imam Bukhari are easily marginalized as “not true/soft/secular” Muslims.

    Suicide bombing was of course not the product of a Muslim mind but of Hindus, calling themselves LTTE. Surely our standards for criticism haven’t changed so much in all these years?

    Or the kamikaze (“divine wind”) pilots during WWII who were probably Shintos, or Buddhists? Though IMO one needs to make the connection between religious texts and action, if one is to bring in religion of the perpetrator as a factor.🙂
    In most cases, there are political, national, and/or monetary compensation factors mixed in with religion.

  39. raghav permalink
    September 22, 2008 11:10 pm

    Muslims happen to live in countries where US plays its game of oil politics. So they r the target.

  40. September 22, 2008 11:21 pm

    Shefaly, what does your friend think is the way forward for people like her? Or would it take the next generation or two for moderate Muslims to be more vocal and effective?

  41. September 22, 2008 11:24 pm

    @ Amit

    “Though IMO one needs to make the connection between religious texts and action, if one is to bring in religion of the perpetrator as a factor.”

    I agree – which is why proselytising religions i.e. religions where conversion is one of the aims assigned to followers should get more attention. Hinduism, Buddhism and afaik, Shintoism do not fit this description.

    I also think that in Islam particularly, the political identity is fully subsumed to the religion so the separation is not even required. Which only explains why moderate Muslims find it hard to raise their voice.

  42. September 23, 2008 12:48 am

    It is the majority that speaks. If the major number of terrorists attacks throughout the world was due to Hindus then this post would have been “Hindus turning away from terrorism but the world is against them”. It is too unfortunate because all my muslim friends are good moderate people and good Humans.

  43. Vinod permalink
    September 23, 2008 7:04 am

    Shefaly, thanks for the correction.

    I also have a close muslim friend who had the following to say on these topics –

    1. The “suicide bomber cult” and political terrorism in general was a manifestation of extreme Marxist/Leninist ideology and very same people who are now called Islamists were working hand in hand with such organizations during the 50s, 60s and especially 70s. “The ends justifies the means” is not an Islamic concept. It is from them that they got most of their rhetoric and tactics. A commonly ignored political reality. If Muslims have always been the same in deflecting responsibility, explain why it took 1,320 years for anything like a suicide bomber to appear amongst the Muslims when explosives have been around since the Ming Dynasty. If you want to know what classical Islamic law says about personal responsibility and the killing of the innocent, please read the following: Defending the Transgressed by Censuring the Reckless against the Killing of Civilians by Shaykh Muhammad `Afifi al-Atiki. This fatwa circulated world-wide and was orignally written in Arabic, but you won’t find a single citation of it on Fox News, MSNBC, CNN, or even Democracy Now!.

    2. In Algeria, Sudan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Pakistan, Egypt Indonesia, Philippines, Pakistan, Turkey and other places (except for Syria possibily), if not due to the above, the constant turmoil that exists in those places is a direct result of the manner in which the British, French and Italians divided the map in those parts of the world, either intentionally or neglectfully, making arbitutrary separations that ensured that territorial wars would continue. The “absence of the Great Satan” (a nicknamed coined by no other than Mahatmas Gandhi) would be a valid point, if the same level of violence and instability existed prior to the creation of the modern Middle-East and North Africa. That doesn’t even take into consideration the meddling, sabatage and outright antagonism that occured second-hand. Its been proven that the French Intellegence is responsible for not only the civil strife that occured in Algeria, but also the first instance of “Islamic terrorism” on European soil. Dictatorships were directly financed and even supported militarily by Western powers in Algeria, Pakistan, Egypt, Iraq, Turkey, and other places. Wars were provoked by the West between Iran and Iraq, Afghanistan, and Sudan. Marxism and Leninism was strong in the Phillipines and Indonesia, not to mention the complete disenfranchisement of a 90% Muslim populace that is some how “democractically” governed mostly by Christians. What is this you say about the Great Satan being absent? The violence in the Muslim world, which is a direct result of the shifting global order does not come close to comparing the violence that gave birth to the modern Western world, when this shift initially began.

    3. Muslim apologies? Muslims have been apologizing day in and day out since 9/11 and during that time, there was even a mass document circulation world-wide where the Muslims dwell, from the Americas to the Middle-East to Indonesia, signed by almost every significant scholar and political figure. The reason why you haven’t heard about any apologies is because that doesn’t increase ratings for Fox News nor fit with their belief that every practicing Muslim is a potential terrorist. But that is besides the point. When every White American and Western European apologizes for the Translatlantic Slave Trade, including those who would have been Abolitionists, then we can talk about Muslims apologizing for something that they had nothing to do with. Hell, I don’t even think America has apologized for what it did to its own citizens of Japanese descent…

    And despite all the media attention that the Muslims are getting due to the war on “terror”, the vast majority of terrorist acts are still committed in Latin America, most of whom are predominantly Christian

  44. Vinod permalink
    September 23, 2008 7:33 am

    NEW YORK, NY, USA — Stop apologizing for Al Qaeda. You didn’t create them, the Central Intelligence Agency did. Stop apologizing for every act of violence perpetrated by Muslims – unless you demand that every Christian and Jew apologize for the murderous acts of their co-religionists, too. Enough already. Stand tall, walk proud, and love yourselves because Islam is a great religion and Islamic history is a very rich and impressive one.

    Since September 11, 2001, Muslims around the world have had unrelenting pressure brought to bear on them to apologize, or explain, or condemn every act of violence committed by those who call themselves Muslims. And that is exactly what Islamic leaders have been so pathetically doing – incessantly and fruitlessly trying to explain to an already-indoctrinated audience that not all Muslims are evil or violent.

    Yes, the 9/11 terror attacks were a truly grotesque act of mass murder, leading to the deaths of 3,000 innocent men, women, and children. But their lives and their innocence was not greater than the hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi lives lost as a result of Western and Zionist aggression. How many 9/11s have been unleashed against the Iraqi people in the last four years alone, to say nothing of the countless victims generated as a direct result of US-led economic sanctions during the 8 years prior to the invasion?

    Why is it more evil to plan an attack like 9/11 than to conspire to wage a war of aggression against a defenseless nation and reduce it to rubble? The answer is, it isn’t – so stop apologizing.

    When someone asks you to condemn Islamic violence, demand they first condemn Christian and Jewish violence and apologize for the disproportionate amount of death and destruction they have visited upon the world. Because, if you added up every fatality caused by all the so-called Islamic fundamentalist organizations combined, they would barely amount to a fraction of the murders committed by Christians and Jews in the last 100 years alone.

    When you are reminded of how Muslim financial support for terrorist organizations has led to thousands of deaths around the world, don’t forget to remind them how Zionist Jewish bankers in New York, Germany, and England funneled millions of dollars to the Bolsheviks, who killed an estimated 20 million Russian Orthodox Christians between 1917 and 1945.

    You may also wish to remind them that $5 billion a year from the US has been funding Israel’s 40-year occupation of the West Bank and Jerusalem, its construction of segregated Jewish supremacist settlements, and its continued violation of dozens of UN resolutions, to say nothing of its history of violence against innocent Arab civilians.

    The Israelis who get blown up on buses are not more important than the Palestinians killed by American-supplied Israeli tanks, planes, bombs, and missiles. By all means mourn and condemn the US and British lives recently lost to terrorist acts, but don’t forget to remind the world to condemn the wholesale killing of hundreds of Lebanese civilians during last summer’s savage Israeli bombing campaign, using cluster bombs and other munitions supplied by the US and transported to Israel via Britain. Not only did President George W. Bush and Prime Minister Tony Blair fail to condemn Israel at the time for what were obviously grievous violations of international humanitarian law, but they also blocked any attempt by the UN to intervene and supplied the arms to help the attack along.

    It is indeed quite impressive that Western leaders don’t “teach” their young men and women to strap bombs to themselves and blow themselves up like militant Muslim leaders do. But, then again, why would they when they have their armies to do that? I mean, why use a pathetic little homemade bomb when you can drop a 2,268-kilogram (5,000-pound) Daisy Cutter? Why content yourself with bringing down two buildings when you can reduce entire neighborhoods to rubble as those in Bint Jbail, Beirut, Jenin, Gaza, Fallujah, and Kabul have been?

    To somehow mitigate the criminality of the terror perpetrated on behalf of the Western ruling elite, it is oftentimes pointed out by their apologists that Muslims themselves have, in the past, and present, killed each other – frequently with cruelty and without mercy – as they are now doing in Iraq. Well, the fact is, Christians have acted in the exact same way among themselves. Remember the 200,000 Germans incinerated in Dresden in 72 hours? Or the obliteration of 180,000 civilians in Hiroshima, then the only Christian city in Japan? What about the massive Christian-on-Christian violence in the Balkans, including 78 days of round-the-clock US bombing? The list goes on. Do those facts somehow negate the criminality of Muslim terrorism against Christians?

    The point here is not to make excuses or justify the killing of innocents by Muslims. But rather to point out that it must also be recognized and understood Muslim violence is not inherently more evil than that perpetrated by their accusers. And the loss of Muslim life as a result of Western imperialist and colonialist aggression is not more benign than the killing of innocents as a result of so-called “religious” imperatives. The time is long overdue for Muslims to stop speaking from a position of apology and weakness and to start exercising the moral imperative they have to stand up for themselves.

    Victor Lama is a New York-based freelance writer and commentator. He contributed this article to Media Monitors Network (MMN). Acknowledgement to MMN.

  45. Vinod permalink
    September 23, 2008 7:37 am

    Nita, I have taken the liberty to post that article on your comments section. Pls let me know if it is inappropriate to do such a thing. I will then refrain from such postings.

    The only question is of copyright issues. A link is always preferable. If you get the link, then why not post it, with an excerpt from the article? – Nita.

  46. Vinod permalink
    September 23, 2008 8:23 am

    The link unfortunately reroutes one only to the homepage of the site and no longer connects to the article.

    The website is

    http://www.metimes.com

    The article was published on Feb 27, 2007.

    Okay, let it be then. – Nita.

  47. September 23, 2008 12:13 pm

    There could be many groups, i agree! Do name some for my knowledge… and even though we do say that there are many groups are majority of them not coming from the same religion..

  48. sriniani permalink
    September 23, 2008 5:22 pm

    The spurt in voilence might have changed the mood in countries like Pakistan. Read the post written by Hamir, who is considered to be staunch supporter of Taliban: http://pakteahouse.wordpress.com/2008/09/21/islamabad-blasts-pain-and-agony/

    Thanks for directing me to this post. However I was quite disgusted by 1-2 comments which apparently suggested that only killing innocent Pakistanis was a crime and not innocent people from other religions and countries. It was shocking and disgusting to read a comment saying that the terrorists should go to Kashmir!! These people are sick, mentally sick, criminal minded and psychotic to think this way. Also they have a twisted view of India. I feel sorry for any Pakistani who believes that India wants to attack Pakistan. It shows how brainwashed they are. – Nita.

  49. September 24, 2008 3:37 am

    Some very wise words from Rambodoc

    turning the docs argument on its head
    ‘the economic failure of Socialist oriented countries’ Also with the rise in fortunes of the bin sauds and the wahabis their funding is helping build the radical purist sphere of influence – thanks to oil dollars

    Nita , i dont trust surveys – and people generally give opinion on a case by case basis.
    And i fully agree with Priyank , infact we were talking about it the other day after he read my terror post🙂

    As i see it appeasement of radicals and minorities in this country is a dangerous practice , that helps radicalise the whole country – the bending of the rules for a particular set of individuals only helps in general lawlessness…

  50. September 24, 2008 3:56 am

    Shefalis also makes a lot of sense
    ‘Damned if they do, and damned if they do not.
    I am aware that my fate is still tied to tribal laws from centuries ago. Technically, my husband can divorce me with a few words and that would be valid.’
    ok in the subcontinent where society or umma plays a vital role but hey in a liberal uk setup ??

    i fully agree with amits
    “But I have to say that in Indian media/blogsphere, it is easier to find Hindus openly critical of VHP/RSS etc., but one can’t say the same for the Muslim community openly criticizing Deobandis or Barelvis, or certain actions of fellow-Muslims ”

    For a hindu – there is no denying that radical muslims or muslims for that matter will always
    be a considered a danger not just because of pakistans creation, but also because of centuries of muslim rule..

  51. September 24, 2008 9:13 am

    Shefaly, thanks for the link. These kind of things can happen only there!🙂

    Raghav, thanks for your comment.

    Dinesh Babu, true what you said. But also the fact that anyone using the name of God while attacking automatically makes him a terrorist from that religion.

    Sakhi, will be writing about this soon.

    Prax, now that I know your views on this issue, I can almost write your comment myself on this issue!🙂 I agree that the rules for everyone should be the same. No discrimination pro anyone, of any religion. Not just rules, but even acting on rules.

  52. vinod permalink
    September 24, 2008 12:59 pm

    the problem with some muslims is that they live in a shell which is a few thousand years old, they are unwilling to merge with the present time or reality, a muslim is a terorist if uneducated and an educated muslim can also be a terorist as proved recently, they themselves are to be blamed for all their troubles, soon everyone will become a fanatic and there will chaos only time will tell us that.

  53. September 25, 2008 1:43 am

    Oustanding post and debate. I might link to this post in a future post of mine, if you don’t mind Nita.

    You are welcome!🙂 – Nita.

  54. Venkat permalink
    September 25, 2008 6:07 am

    Shefaly,
    LTTE are not Hindu terrorists. There are several (actually significant number of) Christians in LTTE. There are also muslims in LTTE. Prabhakaran’s right-hand man was a Christian, and his son has a Christian name. And most importantly, they have nothing do with religious beliefs, in the sense that they don’t send out e-mails with quotes or references to Bhagavad Gita or Vedas after killing innocent people. Going by your logic, we can call dacoits as “Hindu terrorists” since most of them are Hindus and they kill and loot innocent people. That is not the point here.

    People of all religions can be (and have been) great people or killers, but when we talk about religious terrorism, we talk about killing innocent people (especially targetting people from other religions) using their religion as the basis.

    Secondly LTTE did not invent suicide bombing. It first started in 1983 by a group called Islamic Jihad in the famous Beirut barracks bombing in Lebanon. It then spread from there to other groups like LTTE and Islamic fundamentalist terror groups. Please read
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Beirut_barracks_bombing
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_attack

    Nita,
    I don’t know if Muslims are moving away from terror (as much as I would like to believe). However, I am sending you an interesting website (and blogs) which help you know how Indian muslims think. Please also read the comments in the blogs.
    http://indianmuslims.in/media-circus-of-todays-encounter/
    http://indianmuslims.in/jamia-nagar-delhi-police-encounter-terrorists/
    http://indianmuslims.in/the-delhi-police-code/

    Regards,
    Venkat

  55. Vinod permalink
    September 25, 2008 7:47 am

    Now that’s a third vinod. Eeeks.

    Get a wp avatar!!🙂 I was also confused intially and then checked the email id to make sure who was who!🙂 – Nita.

  56. Soul sEeKeRz permalink
    September 27, 2008 11:23 am

    Hey Buddy listen me..! Muslims are not terrorist.
    Bush and others are spreading terrorism in all over the world..
    Islam is a peaceful religion

  57. Venkat permalink
    September 27, 2008 1:33 pm

    @Soul sEeKeRz,
    Whom are you addressing?

    Regards,
    Venkat

  58. Makhdoom permalink
    September 28, 2008 5:14 am

    It is a good debate, but unfortunatley terrorists are not going to stop bombing nor more mulsims turning away from fanaticism will make them feel welcome by maistream society.

    A bomb went off in Delhi killing a young boy and injuring scores more. Whatever happened to the police encounter theory, does anybody in this governemnt realise that police has failed its duty?

    I have no answer as to why people from my community resort to violence, all that religious crap does not hold true especially in the month of Ramazan when they should be fasting and praying. Its a simple case of misguided despotic thugs trying to justify violence by getting religious sanction towards mindless violence!!

  59. September 28, 2008 11:00 pm

    I still go with the famous quote…
    “Not all muslims are terrorists, but unfortunately all terrorists are muslims.”
    There are many activities that happen in a nearby muslim area which still put a question mark. They seem to never get a positive comment from me. At least not for some years to come.

  60. October 4, 2008 1:30 pm

    Nita: Good post and thought-provoking comments…

    However there are surveys and there are surveys…The key is to understand how the average Muslim on the street feels about these issues…and that differs widely depending on who you ask…The response of an average Muslim in Mumbai, Milan and Muzzafarabad (PoK) to terrorism would be very different…

    The other thing is how does the leadership react to these things…Most of you would be aware of the Deoband declaration…I dont think it went far enough…(in my view), it was “too little, too late”…but a good step forward…

    We need more than good steps though…we need stronger and more articulate voices..

    Sadly that seems to be lacking.

    For those of you who may be interested, here are results from a survey on terrorism in Pakistan (conducted last year):

    http://satyameva-jayate.org/2008/08/11/terrorism-public-opinion-pakistan/

    Nita: I hope you will let the link stay…The results are interesting in the context of your survey.

    Thanks.

  61. captain sharks permalink
    October 4, 2008 6:40 pm

    once again an xcellent post….

    fanaticism and cynicism are really the main virus every country is facing today.fanatics-impossible to convince…cynics-will look for conspiracies in almost everything….may be money or power hunger can drive people to enter d crime arena…but now,after readin news daily,gangrape of a nun…riots….bomb blasts…war in d name f religion n all blah blah blah……..okay may be d masterminds behind these prevailin insanity may hav political agendas but wat about d perpetrators f these heinous acts ?? wat is drivin them with so much hatred ?? surely not d money fcourse…
    well,about religion then my view is people should not follow it blindly…wat is important is faith in god not in religion….
    nita ji,my dis comment is sumwat irrelevant to d above topic,do delete it if u too think so……

  62. November 18, 2008 9:29 pm

    I have never been to a muslim dominated country, but in Secular India, I don’t really see the muslims around me as aggressive or hate-minded. In fact they are better people (but slightly introverted and having their own opinions – thats perfectly fine as every person is like that in a way). Terrorists rise when they feel that they have been given a raw deal. Either they are right or wrong. We must really look at it from this point of view and take a stand on issues like terror. And taking an informed stand is very tough in the face of a biased media.

    Destination Infinity

  63. openlight permalink
    November 21, 2008 1:03 am

    Islam talks of non-followers and holy war against them.

    I don’t recollect similar religious saying in any other religion for non-followers and establishment of an world having the said religion only (hinduism, sikhism, christianity, jainism, budhhism do not have it) or I am not aware of existence of such religion.

    Hence, the decline shown may be due to worldwide efforts Islamic terrorism especially against Al-qaida carried by US (and thats why al-qaida bombings have gone down and are concentrated in and around afghanistan)

    But, if the grip is loosened (may be due to present economic pressures) world will witness another rounds of islamic terrorism as already being sustained by India (for decades ), Bali,and of course US.

  64. Indian30 permalink
    November 27, 2008 9:00 pm

    Iam a muslim mother.Iam really horrified by this terrorists attacks.You can really imagine my position as a muslim and mother,I really feel vulnerable thinking about the future for my kids and my community in general.We are a hated lot all over the world.I have faced direct first hand abuse in India ,treated very shabbily because I choose to wear purdah.
    Even though growing up my best friends were hindus and christians.I never imagined India coming to this.I no longer feel safe going out and you can imagine the feeling people looking at you suspiciously all the time.Beleive me,muslim men are the most vulnerable lot.Media has been successful in ingraining muslims as voilent and agressive.I even fear for my husbands life and being discriminated cos he has exceptionall y muslim appearance with beard.
    These bombblast and shootings not only kill non-muslims but muslims are also killed.But still muslims are looked as traitors and hatefull lot,when hatemongerers in both parties are involved.

  65. Stu permalink
    December 14, 2008 1:13 pm

    Hey Indian30, just have a look at all the countries in the world that have large muslim populations, they all have terrorism, and it is all because the muslims want to force the native population to adopt their ways and abandon their own. This ideology is supported in your own Koran. Wherever the mulsims have control there is no tolerance at all of any other religions, cultures, or lifestyles that are not compatible with Islam. Muslims have destroyed all other cultures, religions, lifestyles, and killed or subjugated all native populations wherever they have taken over. Sorry but these are facts. All the while they are doing that, they are painting themselves as victims of others for having to put up with them doing things like, celebrating their own religious days, eating pork, drinking alcohol, and dressing as they wish. The thing that Islam hates the most, is women’s freedom, especially sexual freedom. Islam is obsessed with subjugating women, especially sexually, to the point where they still practice stoning women to death for sexual infringments of there Sharia law. The fact that the penalty for leaving Islam in many muslim countries, is death, should give you a clue as to the intolerant attitude of muslims towards others.

    Muslims live in peace with others only for as long as they are a complete minority with absolutely no power at all, if it is any other way, they make war against their non muslim neighbors. This is how it is in every single country in the world that has a muslim population of more then about 10 percent, with out exception.
    There are two main things that come from muslim countries……..one was just a chance thing that they did not contribute too and was just lucky to have sitting under their feet……oil…….the other is entirely their own doing, and is the hallmark of being muslim……..their biggest contribution to the world that they can take all the credit for……….terrorism……..that’s it……..there is nothing else.

  66. Naveen permalink
    January 1, 2009 4:29 am

    I think the video is very educational and I feel lucky to have found it. It changed a lot of my mainstream views of Islam.

  67. vasudev permalink
    January 1, 2009 8:47 pm

    i haven’t gone through all the posts but i went through some posts.

    the difference between being a hindu and a muslim is: hindus do not do this when coerced or forced to believe. hindus have the right to reject their gods. hindus have no compulsions to go to temples. and hinduism does not believe in conversions (it is a dying religion). care to realise therefore that if militancy is growing in this religion then it is for the worst. it is a reaction to decades of exposure to exploitation by abrahamic faith systems. while hinduism does not publish books and articles be-litteling other religions abrahamic faiths constantly try to spread mockery and falsities to improve their strengths (it is almost like how parties work and not at all like how god works).

    therefore while i can still tell my pundit to take a walk if he tells me something unpalatable to my common sense, islam and christianity take pleasure in brain washing their ilk that hindus are either to be converted or to be exterminated. i do not see any collective voice of these faiths against this. if there is collective opposition then they can put a stop to all this.

    or else, even middle class hindus would now turn from peace to remorse to hatred and then start feeling happy that hinduism finally has its own brand of terrorism…u call it whatever. a sleeping, peaceful giant can take pin pricks only to such an extent before he wakes up and starts retaliating against his tormentors. if india turns intolerant and dangerous tomorrow i would lay the blame squarely on the shoulders of the abrahamic faith followers and against politics crazy governments.

Trackbacks

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