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Why show sympathy to the terror accused in the Malegaon blasts?

November 25, 2008

First it was the alleged involvement of Sadhvi Pragya Singh in the Malegaon bomb blasts and as more details of the conspiracy were revealed, more people (Hindus) have been accused, including an Army officer. And all sorts of accusations are flying around, for instance the group has been accused of being involved in other blasts like the Samjauta Express blast. In fact everytime I open the newspapers, there are new names, and new revelations. A recent one is that the Sadhvi and her associates were planning to kill some RSS leaders, some of their “own”! All this is being given out by the investigating agencies even before the chargesheet is filed, but then this isn’t something new. They always go into an overdrive, leaking preliminary findings after any major crime has been committed, mostly egged on by politicians. And then more accusations start to fly.

In this case the BJP has accused the Congress of leaking too much too soon. They have said that Congress is trying to please the Muslim community by ensuring that they are left in no doubt that the government prosecutes Hindus as vigorously as they prosecute Muslims (those accused in bomb blasts). The BJP has also accused the Congress and its allies of projecting India as a “Hindu terror” country.

The term “Hindu” terror makes me sick to the core, even more than the term Islamic terror (which I have always been opposed to) and I guess this is so because I am a Hindu.

The Congress on its part is accusing the BJP of politicising the blasts as well, as the BJP is showing some sympathy for the Malegaon blast accused. Initially, LK Advani, the BJP leader, had said (about a month ago) that if Sadhvi Pragya Singh Thakur is found guilty, she should be punished. And he had also said that she has nothing to do with the BJP and if any one from any Sangh outfit found guilty of any crime that person should be brought to book. That seemed reasonable to me, because investigating agencies should be allowed to do their job. But disturbingly, this stance of the BJP has changed. Although there are voices within the BJP which do not agree with this new stance, their voices are being stifled.

Rajnath Singh has said that things like “those believing in cultural nationalism cannot ever take to terror.” And Advani has now condemned the “barbaric treatment” meted out to a “spiritual person.” With Advani and Rajnath Singh in the lead, it appears as if everyone in the Sangh Parivar is sympathetic to Pragya Singh, Col. Purohit and other Malegaon blast accused and the general consensus seems to be that these people have been wrongly accused.

But how can the BJP be so sure that these people are innocent? Suppose solid evidence is found against these people? How will they face the electorate?

Or do they feel that the Hindu majority is so naïve as to believe that “saints” cannot be involved in bomb blasts? We know that so-called saints are involved in murder and rape, so why cannot they be involved in terror? And Advani and others seem very concerned that the Sadhvi was tortured, but what about the scores of Muslims who have been tortured, many of them innocent? Or do they feel that the Hindu majority only cares about its own? Or do they think that the Hindu majority toes the Shiv Sena line and secretly believes that the bomb blasts are justifed? The Shiv Sena has said that Hindus are retaliating was because “when people get tired of not getting justice, they take up arms. If the government had taken action against terrorists earlier, then Hindu groups won’t have been accused of such activities.”

Sure, India has bled for over over 20 years due to bomb blasts and it is not surprising that some sort of retaliation happened, as there are violent people in all religions. But that doesn’t mean it’s justified. The most important thing is that tit for tat is not the answer, and violence is never justified. Heck, we will have a civil war on our hands! Anyone who plants a bomb and kills innocent people, whether he is Muslim or Hindu or Christian is a murderer and killer, however “justified” his cause, however many grievances he has.

But does the BJP think that we Hindus want radical groups to kill and murder innocent people? Or do they feel that the Hindu public has sympathy for the Malegoan blast accused because they believe them to be innocent? Why are they saying that these people are innocent even before the investigation is over?

Apparently, the reason is that Advani got “feedback from the ground” that there is a public wave of sympathy for the blast accused. If this is true, I am asking why?? Do our people believe that revenge is the answer? Or are they so religious that they think that “saints” are not capable of evil, that this is all a conspiracy and that the accused have been framed?

I personally believe in the goodness of human beings, whatever their religion. I cannot believe that a majority of people feel that killing innocent people is justified or understandable. But yes, people can be misled by rhetoric into thinking that the Malegoan blast accused are not guilty, even after evidence is found against them. Haven’t we seen this in the Muslim community as well? There has been widespread denial for many years, and in fact it is the good people who often actually believe that their people cannot do this, that it is some “other,” that it is all a conspiracy.

Related Reading: No reason for violence
SIMI and Bajrang Dal – can they be compared?
Muslims turning away from terrorism but the world is against them
Some answers as to why terrorism is rampant in our country
Is torture a necessary evil?
They are not terrorists, they are criminals

98 Comments leave one →
  1. pss4005seh permalink
    November 25, 2008 10:25 am

    This is all planned and no outcome will come this time too…Every time there is a blast, not only in our country..the whole world, there is a Muslim in it…so who is really responsible for this..? In my own opinion, the politics is responsible for the blasts in our country…you don’t apply law so strictly and the pressure comes from the upper levels..the government is really annoying..the officers really don’t know what to do.. and dis makes non-sense as usual…

    Well, I don’t think only Muslims are involved but yes, in most cases it does appear to be so. Actually you are right about the politics part. The terrorism movement is global, and it’s origin is in the middle-east. Terrorism in India cannot die unless the global movement is dead. – Nita.

  2. November 25, 2008 11:33 am

    Hi Nita, Amazing clarity, and totally unbiased. I have avoided blogging about this too much, because I saw we were ready to condemn anyone in a great hurry. I would rather wait for the court verdict before making any conclusions. Maybe they are innocent, but that won’t be because all Sadhwis are innocent, maybe they are involved, but that won’t be because ALL Hindus want retaliatory terrorism.
    I am suspicious of BJP because their Hidutwa agenda – the very basis of their being is endangered if the Sadhwi is found guilty.
    But I am also suspicious of the Congress because they are not checking the unverified statements made by the ATS. But then this is something our governments never do. Rajesh Talwar case and Batla House case have shown the investigating officers call press conferences and lambaste the suspects without waiting for conviction.

    IHM, thanks. I know what you mean about not blogging about it, because me too was thinking of it, but wanted to be as objective as possible. Actually if you ask me I don’t like either the BJP or the Congress. I just don’t know whom to vote for this coming election. – Nita.

  3. November 25, 2008 12:42 pm

    Well, actually i’m happy that Congress is blowing this issue of ‘Hindu’ / ‘Saffron’ terror out of proportion .. It will surely create a sympathy in the hearts of millions of hindus for sadhvi pragya nad other accused and peoplpe will come to know how the hindus are being targetted and how muslims have been appeased by Congress .. This will wipe out COngress and I will be the happiest person on this earth .. I still feel that congress should arrest more sadhus and RSS/VHP leader ..

    By the qway, I do have sympathy for all the accused in Malegaon Blast case .. It was a retaliation of the provocation which we have been facing since ages by Islamic Extremists .. Someone somewhere is gonna retaliate and if it is in this way, one has to accept it .. ‘Tit for tat’ is the Mantra in this world ..

    American people did not retaliate after twin tower was attacked because they knew that their government will rise and will give them justice irrespective of religion,region,cast,creed .. Here in India, people know that nothing will happen to the islamic terrorists who carried out the blasts in jaipur,Ahmedabad because they belong to minority community and congress – the ruling party- needs their votes .. so even if they are guilty, they wont be punished .. Afzal Guru is the example here .. So when government does not do anything, people will take law in their hands and and we can see what is happening here ..

    Congress, Psuedo-seculars and so-called intellectuals and sophisticated modern citizens who give a blind eye to SIMI and who will make sure that they go to any level to defame hindu,BJP,RSS,VHP, are responsibel for making HIndus terrorists .. I’m happy that someone somewhere stood for US and went to jail ..

    Soham, yes I agree that the Congress is blowing it out of proportion and its wrong of them and the communist parties to talk of Hindu terror. However it worries me when you say that “I’m happy that someone somewhere stood for US and went to jail ..” and I sincerely hope you do not mean that you will be glad if some Hindu has killed and maimed innocent people. About doing what the US did (in our case attack Pakistan), that is a very serious issue, and I personally do not believe that attacking Pakistan is good for India. Or that it will solve the problem. The US solved its problem not because it attacked Afghanistan but because of their efficient system, good intelligence, and lack of corruption as compared to India. – Nita.

  4. November 25, 2008 1:13 pm

    @ Nita : I am afraid I am going to die of laughing. Does this country have any any semblance of Rule of Law anymore? It is okay to violate the human rights of ordinary people but woe betide you if you torture a self proclaimed spiritual person. These people who have been accused of such heinous crimes need a fair trial. Is that trial now possible after so much media coverage?

    People seem to have already made up their minds about their guilt. Some reader above is talking about the Americans. Well Americans are not one of the most popular people right now. So why should we act like them? Americans also seem to have ticked off their own friends and allies. Caused a multi-trillion dollar war deficit, started a world economic crisis and had more of their citizens killed in the so called war against terror than were originally killed in those buildings that were attacked. Can a poor country like India afford to do that?

    What non sense about Hindu Terror or Muslim Terror or Gay Terror or whatever. Some fancy terms!! Why cant you just try people for being murderers, rapists or whatever. The common law is quite capable of taking care of these people if applied correctly. In my mind they are nothing more than mere common criminals and as such deserve no attention.

    Frankly Nita this is a non Issue. I am a bit disappointed at you for raising it. I expect that thing from the trashy newspapers that are printed in India but I usually come around here for a breath of fresh air. :p

    Odzer, this is a huge issue for me, something I have been thinking about for more than a month, day in and day out. In fact I confess that once I even lay awake in bed thinking of this. I should have actually written about it earlier, but delayed it. Generally I write about things I feel very strongly about, and at times they are about film stars too! If it’s on my mind I write about it, that is my driving force, my own thoughts. The Malegaon blasts and it’s aftermath is what is consuming me.🙂 I feel it is a very important issue for our country, a turning point so to say and my blog is about India. – Nita.

  5. November 25, 2008 1:28 pm

    Well the only way out all this is say who ever blasts these politicians and their rhetoric manipulation will be found not guilty while everyone is sent to jail.The fact is all these years we have heard them call people “muslim terrorists” and now when it comes to their party they start taking a “broader” approach.

    the true end for all this happen,when we do have a proper revolution-a mental revolution,where in everyone realizes that democracy is the biggest hypocrisy and comes to terms with reality-what we need is to choose a person who can shut the trap of these old men,who frankly are better of relaxing,our ancient kings knew better.

    Vishesh, true, if some powerful politician wants it, they will protect that person. – Nita.

  6. November 25, 2008 1:29 pm

    @odzer:

    well, I had to write about America because we Indians are so hypocrate that we copy western culture(Read:American) to the drop of a hat but when there is a case to follow the policy which they are carrying out to tackle terrorism, we criticize them ..

    People of America did support Bush’s decision to invade afghanistan and destroy taliban regime .. It was Iraq’s war which was uncalled for .. After all it was a war and people do get killed and money is spent but you just cant sit and watch like India is doing right now .. Do we ever thought of invading Pakistan after all the reports proved that ISI was behind all these blasts .. what we will say – ‘How can a poor country like India afford war??’ .. Can a country like India afford bomb blast every other day and in every other corner of India?? .. Answer will be Yes unless and until someone from our family or even me or you will be affescted by those bomb blast .. At that time, you will come out with all ur anger and will justify any war against terrorism .. Time will prove it ..

  7. November 25, 2008 1:50 pm

    @ Nita : Oh if it keeps you awake you must blog about it! He he he. Anyway what usually keeps me awake are the small things in life like not being to have handles in my plastic bags, the non availability of running hot water or even cold water. The poor quality of Indian whiskey etc. Just kidding. I must say though that you still did a most superb job of writing this post which is not what I can say of some of the newspaper reports I have been reading.

    @ Sohal : Do we copy everything of the west? Why do not we have clean streets then? I think most Indians may not even know where the US is. Considering about half can not even read or write. Invade Pakistan? Oh dear lord. Well if you want my opinion on it, we have had around 4 wars with that country. I think that is strategy that has been tested and tried. Go ask the people who have wars fought over their crops. Go ask the people who have to actually die in those wars and Go ask the people who have lost their loved one’s in the previous wars. May be they wont be so gung-ho about a new war. If a government can not protect itself from external threats somehow the problem lies within us as well.

    The right wing in India as well as everywhere else specializes in focusing attention of the people outside the country so that they can get away with Hegelian ways.

  8. Dnyanesh permalink
    November 25, 2008 1:54 pm

    Humanity should be above nation and nation should be above religion.
    I think religious leaders from all religions should come together and accept these basic rules. This should help clarify all understandings and miunderstandings.

  9. November 25, 2008 1:55 pm

    I think the most ridiculous thing is this new allegation of the ATS making Sadhvi listen to obscene CDs… Hehe! Someone should ask them to grow up!😀

  10. @hoku permalink
    November 25, 2008 1:56 pm

    Nita@ I think Odzer is right.
    Soham@ so which country are you are planning attack for the Malegaon blasts, or for Naxalims or ULFA terrorism?

  11. November 25, 2008 2:16 pm

    @ Nikhil : Where can I get some of those obscene CDs? Are they available on eBay yet?

  12. November 25, 2008 2:35 pm

    Odzer, I have written so much on poverty, water problems and consumer issues that it will start to come out of your ears!🙂 I am extremely concerned about these things as you will see from the posts on my blog, but yes I am interested in crime too. For me terrorism is crime and I have written a lot of posts on crime as well. And in fact I am getting interested in politics too as all these things are intertwined. And thanks.🙂

    Dnyanesh, you have echoed my thoughts when you said: “Humanity should be above nation and nation should be above religion.”

    Nikhil, the limit isn’t it! But that’s typical of the Hindutva parties. They want to “protect” women but it’s all hypocrisy. They banned the dance bars and the very same politicians started to call them to their house! Sick hypocrites! These people should be put into a time machine and sent back to zero century b.c.

    Hoku, Odzer has said many things so I am not sure what you mean.🙂

  13. November 25, 2008 2:51 pm

    Every political party has its own nefarious game plan that is intent on milking mileage and votes out of national misery. You probably know how, on an uneventful day, journalists speak aloud, saying things like, “Why can’t there be a bomb blast or train crash: something that could be news?”
    The politicians think the same way. Unless you are miserable, you don’t need them. And they, therefore, will ensure that we all are miserable.
    To some extent, the same argument is valid against doctors!😉

  14. November 25, 2008 3:23 pm

    @Hoku:

    Welcome back Buddy !!

    Naxalims or ULFA terrorism are rooted in India only and they can be dealt without invading any country .. But yeah, to tackle Islamic terrorsim, pakistanis and some of their local indian counterparts must have been dealt with severity .. Once you do that, I dont think you will ever heard a word ‘Hindu’ Terror once again..

  15. November 25, 2008 3:39 pm

    @Nita:

    ** The US solved its problem not because it attacked Afghanistan but because of their efficient system, good intelligence, and lack of corruption as compared to India. **

    Are you kidding me Nita?? .. They even did not realise that those terrorists planned of hijacking around 32 flights and wanted to destroy whole of America .. World’s safest place Pantagon was attacked too .. And you call it a good intelligence .. And do watch out Farenhit 9/11 – the documentry on 9/11 attack and you will realise how corrupt the politicians are in US ..

    And yes, I’m happy that someone stood for US .. Because henevr I go to any temple, i always have a fear in my back of the mind that those islamic terrorists might have planted a bomb and it might explode any time .. same fear revolves aroud me when I go to multiplex, mall or any public place .. Mom-dad always call and ask for my safety .. If I dont pick up any phone, they get tensed and start searching me all over the place .. I was tired of that frustration and the appeasement that minority was getting, was adding more fuel to it .. So at last I m happy that someone somewhere has passed the message that if our mandir,mall,multiplex are bombed then your worship place will not be left behind .. I was a staunch secular but this government, their policies, undue credit- favoursim – appeasement of minorities have turned me into communal ..

  16. November 25, 2008 3:56 pm

    @ Soham : I think you should check again. The US knew well before the attacks that it would be attacked. The intelligence had passed on many reports to the Bush Administration that continued to ignore them. I am sure you can find plenty of links here about this. The same documentary that you mention in your post above also says that Bush knew because he was briefed.

    The same is true in India, the governments in India have been pretty much been unable to keep us safe. Not only from what you describe as Islamic terror but also from as what Hoku has mentioned here as separatist or ultra left wing or right wing terror. As for the non existance of Hindu terror you only have to look at LTTE, they did invent the suicide bombing. So go figure!

    @ Nita : In a way I have been teasing you a bit today, I apologize. I am in one of my moods. I know you have written volumes about things that do matter and besides this is your blog you can write whatever you fancy.

    Odzer, And I tend to get too serious about what I write!🙂 In fact after I replied to your comment, I realised that perhaps I was getting too serious! – Nita.

  17. November 25, 2008 3:58 pm

    @ Nita : Help Help! My comment, its disappeared.

    Odzer, there is something wrong with my comment filteration/spam and I have already complained to wp. lets see if they can fix it. – Nita.

  18. November 25, 2008 3:58 pm

    @ Dnyanesh : Dude you have it spot on.

  19. November 25, 2008 4:21 pm

    In the context of this post let me say that the noise made by the political class re: Malegaon sounds ridiculous.

    One hand tries to justify that terror has a label and the other cries foul on the same old methods applied. (The shoe is on the other foot and it hurts)

    Our media is the ultimate. They are the judge and prosecutor rolled into one. With so much speculation and super-hype, views are solidly polarised and every one is ready to go to battle.

    If at all the so-called “Hindu backlash” is gathering momentum, it is because of this hype and sensationalisation. So a wave will be created where there is none. A minor ripple will be described as a tidal wave and when opinions get hardened it will be called a “Hindu Tsunami”.

    With elections round the corner and stakes being very very high, this is a perfect for our political class to add their own twist to the story.

    In the midst of all this all sanity is lost. I pity the Police and ATS guys. Damned if you work and damned if you do not. Thankless job, I must say…..

  20. Kumar permalink
    November 25, 2008 4:38 pm

    Congress Government has achieved what it is looking from years in the name of Malegoan blasts.

    1) Showing a porn video to the hindu saint Ragya Thakur.

    2) Reason for not hanging Afzal Guru.

    3) This is a preplanned election stunt for the ongoing assembly polls.

    4) Vote bank politics by torturing of few hindu saints will help getting minority votes.

    5) Shifting people thoughts from core issues of Price raise.

    6) Playing safe with minority vote bank.

  21. November 25, 2008 5:18 pm

    Nobody is showing any sympathy. If at all there is sympathy by anyone, that is due to
    * irresponsible media response, moment it was known that some Hindus are allegedly involved in this case
    * prominent TV news channels are showing ‘Om’ symbol, saffron clothes and using the term ‘Hindu terror’ while reporting this case
    * repeated use of narco tests while this was not done like this in other cases; further giving funny statements like the narco tests are not effective on Sadhvi due to her meditation and on army officer due to his tough training.
    * illegal detention of Sadhvi for two weeks,torture of Sadhvi, no women police present during investigations; and surprisingly no women’s organisation is talking about it
    * selective leak of information to test public memory; like use of RDX in Samjhauta train blast supplied by army officer when use of RDX was ruled out earlier
    * tarnishing the image of the army; that army officer procured RDX from army when army clarifies that they don’t use/stock RDX.
    * when the army officer’s lap top did not provide any clue, reports are coming that it has been tampered
    Media forgets that the whole nation is monitoring the day today developments of this case.

  22. November 25, 2008 5:21 pm

    Nita, it has all become so predictable that I am bored. Anything right or wrong against the Muslims-Amar Singh, Lalloo Yadav, Paswan and company stop using their heads and start talking non-sense. Anything right or wrong against the Hindus and Advani, Rajnath Singh and company go berserk. I would not mention the Bukharis and the Togadias. The irony is that both the sides end up hurting their own constituencies. In an election year the politicians are feeding their vote banks and they will continue to do that as long as they benefit from it.

  23. @hoku permalink
    November 25, 2008 5:52 pm

    Kumar@ BJP is also playing for Vote bank politics of Hindus. That is equally bad.
    Why only Afjalguru, Rajiv gandhi’s assassin is in death row since 1999. BJP gov did not hang him either. In fact there are about 20 odd people waiting to be hanged since 90s. Yes, Afjalguru is a good vote plank for BJP.
    Why you keep silent when other alleged terrorist are tortured routinely by police?
    Dr. Vinayak Sen is in jail of Chattisgarh for last 2 yrs for his alleged role in helping naxals.
    Kumar so you are sure that ‘saint’ is innocent. I hope when you (BJP) come to power you would change law so that no Hindu can ever be prosecuted for any charge.

  24. November 25, 2008 6:03 pm

    They are playing games not just with law but also with the entire country ,,
    I am sure the case would never end .. they would be released for not having sufficient evidences against them ..
    This has been happening since long ..
    Congress would stick to their point that they are guitly and BJP will maintain their stance saying its all a big conspiracy .
    and i too feel that retaliation i(hindu terror) is as bad and disgusting as any other form of terrorism ..

  25. Vivek Khadpekar permalink
    November 25, 2008 6:40 pm

    @ Rambodoc:

    This is off-topic, but it is directly inspired by your obiter dictum: {{To some extent, the same argument is valid against doctors!}}

    It doesn’t have to be that way, does it? Consider the fact that something like 80% (perhaps more) of the incidence of morbidity in India is due to preventible (mainly waterborne and water-related gastro-intestinal) diseases, which translate into millions of lost workdays, diminished livelihoods and sub-par quality of life.

    Surely a doctors have a significant role to play in educating people in personal hygiene and environmental sanitation, leading to preventive health care. That would leave the really capable doctors free to attend to ailments and diseases that really need their special attention, instead of having to waste their time (and their patients’ money) treating diarrhoea and dysentery. Your aspersion against your own tribe would then stand invalidated.

  26. November 25, 2008 6:48 pm

    @Kumar:

    Bang on target man !! .. But let congress blow this issue more and more and let them arrest more saints .. It just creates sympathy-wave and it will turn into votes for BJP .. If congress only cares for those 20%, we have to show them power of 80% .. Tit for Tat is the mantra ..

    @Odzer:

    Dude .. LTTe is not a hindu terror group .. There are more chrisitians and Budhhists in LTTE than Hindus .. Their fight is not on the religion basis .. They are fighting ( I dont right or wrong) for thier land and their human rights .. There is no religion involved .. so we really cant compare that with Malegaon or Jaipur/Ahmedabad blast ..

  27. Kumar permalink
    November 25, 2008 7:34 pm

    @hoku

    See, The problem is not limited to the communal divide which congress is trying to bring for minority votes But for the first time in the Indian history, Congress is trying to malign Indian Army.

    “Kumar so you are sure that ’saint’ is innocent.”
    It is you who is saying before investigation.

    ” I hope when you (BJP) come to power you would change law so that no Hindu can ever be prosecuted for any charge.”
    Atpresent There are more states where BJP is in power Than UPA/Congress.Why do you want to use religion when our country is secular.

  28. vinod permalink
    November 25, 2008 8:52 pm

    But yeah, to tackle Islamic terrorsim, pakistanis and some of their local indian counterparts must have been dealt with severity .. Once you do that, I dont think you will ever heard a word ‘Hindu’ Terror once again..

    Soham, I wonder what your analysis is of the terror attacks in Pakistan itself. Similarly there were terror attacks in Lebanon where many muslims lost their lives. What do you make of all this? Islamic terrorism does not seem directed against non-muslims alone.

  29. November 25, 2008 9:37 pm

    @ Soham : LTTE is predominantly a Hindu terrorist organisation. Let me quote LTTE itself for you from a BBC news report you can find here, “The rebellion, the LTTE says, came about because of discrimination against their predominantly Hindu community by the majority Buddhist Sinhalese population who control the government and the military.

  30. November 25, 2008 9:38 pm

    @ Nita : Oh i see Nita, one of my latest comments went in to moderation as well. I hope WP can resolve it soon. Oh and its not a problem, sometimes even I get more serious than I should be.

  31. hoddo-boka permalink
    November 25, 2008 9:55 pm

    Kumar@
    ‘1) Showing a porn video to the hindu saint Ragya Thakur.
    another lie and video tape.
    Please read the latest news ‘Sadhvi denies having been shown lewd CDs’
    at http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/nov/25atsmale-sadhvi-denies-having-shown-lewd-cds.htm

    I am not saying that Sadhvi is a terrorist until proved so, what I am asking for is a fair trail without any interference from political or pseudo social organisations. I am also asking for the same thing for all people arrested in various crimes. But it seems we don’t hesitate to brand any muslim arrested after bomb blasts as terrorist, problem comes only and only if he/she is from different religion.
    4 muslim boys picked up after Hyderabad Mecca Masjit blast last year were branded terrorists, tortured and later found innocent by court on Nov 5th. But I have not seen any reaction from media or political parties.

  32. November 25, 2008 10:55 pm

    I somehow have the feeling that they are stretching it till the election because after that the public and the media will lose interest. After that no one will remember what happened.

  33. Kumar permalink
    November 25, 2008 11:33 pm

    @hoddo-boka
    http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/PoliticsNation/ATS_made_me_see_obscene_CD_Sadhvi/articleshow/3752449.cms

    Can you pls check the above link where a leading regular media house had published about the saint being harrased by showing a Porn Vide Tape.

    If Congress can play such cheap tricks for minority votes than what Hindus can do..pls tell.
    Can we find in any country treatment of a religious saint that too a woman harassed like this.

    This is not first time Congress is doing..in the Gujarat election it is “Maut Ka saudagar” Now again for Assembly elections a woman saint harassed with obscene video.

    This became a day to day affair for congress to harass hindus..malegoan,Ram sethu,Godra,MF.Hussain,conversions,kandhamal hindus killings,karnataka church conversions..where to end.

  34. Kumar permalink
    November 25, 2008 11:49 pm

    @hoddo-boka

    Showing a porn video to the hindu saint Pragya Thakur By ATS Police.

    http://www.deccanherald.com/Content/Nov252008/scroll20081125102609.asp?section=frontpagenews

    You can check another link from a famous media house unlike rediff (internet news) which is more reliable and with the date of 25th Nov 2008.

    Try searching for something else…
    I am sure islam also won’t permit this what congress is doing…am i right..?

  35. November 26, 2008 1:34 am

    You have expressed very balanced views on the subjects, I must say. I would never be able to look at this so objectively. It is a little disingenuous that political parties are suddenly so concerned about all this just before the elections. After a party wins, all this would be forgotten and the Sadhvi, if she is guilty, will live free!

  36. November 26, 2008 3:25 am

    This writeup shows that Congress is able to achieve what they wanted to achieve with this incident :
    1. Hiding 5 years of impotency in handling terrorism btw more people has died in naxal attacks then bomb blast in 5 yrs.
    2. Hiding the incompetence in handling the economy.
    3. Hiding incompetence of a PM who looks for answer somewhere else when country looks for answers from him.
    4. Hiding incompetence in handling farmer suicides.
    5. Hiding incompetence in handling a man who was holding a city to ransom.
    6. Hiding incompetence in handling Bihar disaster.

    And this is how Congress has provided solutions :
    Falling Health sector = Ban public smoking
    Lack of Education to poors = Give them reservation.

    This ought to be the most ineffective government in the history of India they don’t have a single achievement to show off (even Britishers has more achievements to show off).

    For sure Congress doesn’t know how to govern but surely knows how to manipulate and come to power.

  37. November 26, 2008 3:37 am

    @hoddo-boka read this …
    http://ibnlive.in.com/news/i-was-tortured-made-to-see-obscene-cd-sadhvi/78906-3.html

    This is from agencies and what rediff has published is from there own sources.

    Regarding “But it seems we don’t hesitate to brand any muslim arrested after bomb blasts as terrorist, problem comes only and only if he/she is from different religion.”

    May be you want to see data from past 5 yrs and check how many blast have happened world over and who did it and under what pretext .. you will understand why there is so much prejudice against Muslims not just in India but world over.

    Cheers
    Veresh

  38. November 26, 2008 3:42 am

    Nita,
    Great coverage of thought.
    You covered it in totality.

    To kill is in-human, and to plan for killing is even more. The person accused should be punished.

    The allegations of torture during investigation, seems to fake, and if true could be said as well deserved for being accused.

    Terror cannot be linked with religion, Religion is for Social people (human’s). Terrorism itself is anti-social, inhumane Act. It better they are not linked.

  39. November 26, 2008 4:20 am

    Vivek:
    It doesn’t happen like that, because there is already a filtering before the patient reaches a specialist. Unless you are a GP.

  40. Vivek Khadpekar permalink
    November 26, 2008 6:11 am

    Doc:

    Obviously the thrust of my argument was on GPs. At the same time, you cannot deny that many people — specially the well-to-do — cultivate (and use the services of) specialists much as though they were GPs.

  41. Prakash permalink
    November 26, 2008 9:41 am

    Hello Nita, a good unbiased article. Thx for this article bcoz it’s important for us Hindus to speak against terror even when people involved could be Hindus. But I am not happy with the way you have dealt with some of the commenters here. By being kinda indifferent and playing safe with Nazi Hindus, you do give an impression that you don’t entirely disagree with them. It’s a very dangerous stand and by not completely declaring them as big danger to our secular credentials, you are only giving people like them air to breath. By surviving in such educated forums these people will only gain more momentum. Last thing we Hindus want is to implicitly support such so called educated Hindus who are even more dangerous than sword wielding VHS thugs.
    I wont waste much energy for anyone who openly supports killing innocent people under the pretext of “tit for tat” or “we Hindus had enough” theory. So, there is no point arguing on this intelligent forum. But, I would still like to tell you that this minority cannot hijack the tolerance and fairness of large majority of us Hindus.

    Prakash, I can understand your anger but the reason I allow all views is that we need to know how people think. There is no way that I agree with them I assure you. Not all of them however are nazi, but often misguided, often by their own feelings like anger and frustration, and they are often very young, often below the age of 25. We need to get them into our fold…as long as ofcourse they are not killers and murderers themselves. Often just seeing other points of view can help them understand, even if they do not mention it here. I am glad you commented on this forum and frankly I wish more people like you come here and condemn the violence. Thanks for your comment, but I hope you understand why I allow all views…- Nita.

  42. November 26, 2008 11:12 am

    One comment on ” India has bled for over over 20 years due to … ”
    Well India has been bleeding for past 400 Yrs and more … due to ….. well lot of reasons and finding the answer to why it is bleeding for so long will put these things in correct perspective.

  43. November 26, 2008 11:33 am

    Well, I dont really know waht to comment on this terrorism. I am sick and tired. I am looking for a solution by now. Is there a solution to see a better world?

  44. Kumar permalink
    November 26, 2008 11:42 am

    @ Manoj

    Its highly unlikely to find terrorism free world especially for countries like USA & India.As they are secular & democratic.

    If we observe the communist & islamic religious countries (exceptions for their own reasons) they are successful as they got strict regimes and are able to tackle terrorism.

    We can find people who will be always jealous due to our multi cultural country image.Nations with secular & democratic credentials has to suffer.

  45. November 26, 2008 12:32 pm

    @ Kumar : Indonesia, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Turkey, Iraq, Lebanon, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Jordan, Afghanistan. It seems till now only Micro-States in the Gulf, Iran and perhaps Libya have only been immune from Terrorist attacks. I do not know where you get your news from but it is clear that islamic countries are not immune. As for communist countries the only two communist countries left are North Korea and Cuba both are isolated. China can hardly be seen as communist now.

    Trust me no one is jealous of India. If you have it made up in your own mind then its a different thing? What is there to be jealous of? India is not some kind of heaven paradise. May be you should focus more on the failures of the Indian governments to protect the lives of common people. Even the right wing governments could not do much except dragging the army to our borders and saber rattling. You wanna fight these so called terrorists than work on improving the country as a whole, reduce the population and provide economic and physical security to our own first. The very democracy that you claim to be the cause of our misery is responsible for you being on this blog expressing your religious agenda. Its the very same freedoms that religious parties want to destroy whether Hindu or Muslim. Get a life, be a liberal! There that is as direct as I could be.

  46. Dnyanesh permalink
    November 26, 2008 2:14 pm

    India has many religions. Politicial parties are always looking for sensitive religious issue to increase their votebank. Political parties always keep their interests ahead of national interests. Terrorists are more cruel than enemy soldier. They look for unarmed innocent victims. We must ban all political parties whose agenda is religious. Supporting terrorist only because he is Hindu or Muslim is denying justice for people who lost their lives. An urgent reforms are needed in our judiciary to address these sensitive matters, new laws are needed to fill loopholes. Technology also should be brought in to improve quality of judgement.

  47. Kumar permalink
    November 26, 2008 2:24 pm

    @ odzer,

    “Indonesia, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Turkey, Iraq, Lebanon, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Jordan, Afghanistan.”
    All the countries you mentioned here have the root cause of Islamic terror.And the terrror is against their own religion..or shia vs Sunni sec violence.It is evident that christians,jews or hindus are not responsible for the terror in these countries.

    “China can hardly be seen as communist now.”
    Either you want to change the definition of communism or you want to change the definition of democracy its your choice but you cant count china as a non-communist country .

    “What is there to be jealous of?India is not some kind of heaven paradise.”
    Check the emerging economies scenario in the world economy.you can find reasons for jealousy.

    “The very democracy that you claim to be the cause of our misery is responsible for you being on this blog expressing your religious agenda.”
    I agree with you.I love to be a citizen of secular democracy and i love being an Indian.thats my religion Hindusthani..:).

    “Its the very same freedoms that religious parties want to destroy whether Hindu or Muslim.”
    yes, i dont want to see india as a muslim country or a christian India by religious conversions or a hindu country.

    “Get a life, be a liberal! There that is as direct as I could be.”
    Yes, its better we should stop following our hindu religion,culture and traditions to become liberals..Is that what you want to say..?

    Can you define what def. you follow for liberals…? Dont say NDTV,CNN IBN culture bashing hinduism will make you liberal.
    or Not following hindu culture will make one liberal.

    Can we guarantee islamic terrorism will stop after loosing all our Hindu culture & traditions in the name of becoming a liberal.

    Spain & Europe contains mostly liberals why they are not spared of Madrid bombings & terrorism by AL-Qaida/Islamic terror..?

  48. November 26, 2008 3:44 pm

    @ Kumar : Dnyanesh has put it right when he says banning parties with religious agenda should be done. In a secular country religion has no place in the government. We can not afford this tomfoolery anymore. Enough!

    I am not going to discuss the nitty gritty with you but lets just say this for now. Your world view is definitely clouded by your faith. Which is fine if you want to hold on to it. If you hold religious convictions and if you are prepared to defend them at the cost of human lives then you may be a hero to one community but you are a terrorist to another.

    The pot calling the kettle black is a very apt statement for what you have been posting so far. When your own closet is stuffed with dirty linen as is the case with all major world religions you do not go around laughing at other people’s dirty laundry.

    Hundreds of people die in this country every day due to governmental negligence due to road accidents, lack of safety at work etc etc. I am sure the number would far outpace killings by terrorists. Can you tell me ten things that the right wing in India have done to make the life of the poor average Indian safer? Not that the center or the left wing have done any better but I would rather have a government that does not take us to war at the drop of a hat while singing songs of India shining. I can give you a link of ten UN reports that show India is doing poorly when compared even with sub saharan Africa. Sure India is an emerging economy but what is the standard of life in India even when compared with all the emerging economies? Its a time you take a huge bite out of the reality sandwich my friend and stop harping on “mera desh mahan”. The time is still not come to rest on your laurels. We need to work hard for the next 3 generations if we want to be even the 2nd World.

  49. @hoku permalink
    November 26, 2008 4:52 pm

    Kumar@
    1. ‘“Indonesia, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Turkey, Iraq, Lebanon, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Jordan, Afghanistan.”
    All the countries you mentioned here have the root cause of Islamic terror’
    Yes some of the terrorists may be from these countries, but policies of these countries no way are root cause of current terrorism. It is well known that Al-Quaida and other terrorist groups started its root at Afghanistan under active patronage of CIA to fight communist USSR. Once USSR left these trained, armed to teeth brain washed terrorist started attacking USA interests as they thought USA is acting against Muslim Interest. Situation at Kosovo added fuel to the fire.
    Presence of American armies at Saudi Arabia was considered to be another cause. Continuous support of USA to Saudi monarchy and not allowing any kind of political reform was another cause.
    Don;t get brain washed by nicker walas, they are no way better enlighten than hardcore mullahs.

    2. “What is there to be jealous of?India is not some kind of heaven paradise.”
    Check the emerging economies scenario in the world economy.you can find reasons for jealousy.

    It’s not clear why outsider would be jealous of us.
    It is surprising that outsiders feel jealous of India so many dubious records. To name a few
    – 40% of Indian citizen surviving with less than 500 Rs a month,
    -having an unique cast system where people are still considered to be untouchable
    – more than half of the babies are under weight and malnourished
    -a country with very high infant mortality rate

  50. Kumar permalink
    November 26, 2008 5:00 pm

    @ odzer

    “Banning parties with religious agenda should be done.”
    Whom we will ban, Banning congress for IMUL or MIM as an ally..?
    Can you name a party which is rightwing in India.It is congress which likes Muslims & christians and wants to make India a muslim or a christian country by supporting islamic terrorism and Christian conversions.
    Can we say banning is a democratic..?
    Does following ones own religion is rightwing..?
    Obama doesn’t go to Church..?
    Hindu going to a temple ..becomes rightwing.?

    “I am not going to discuss the nitty gritty with you but lets just say this for now. ”
    Just by not discussing or discussing truth won’t change.

    “Your world view is definitely clouded by your faith”
    Hinduism is not a religion it is way of life and i am proud of my religion,culture & heritage.
    I could able to practice freely in major countries across,Europe,USA & India.People had always respected my religion.

    “If you are prepared to defend them at the cost of human lives then you may be a hero to one community but you are a terrorist to another.”
    I am saying why congress party has to malign a religion like hinduism before investigation.
    What is a need to show a porn CD to a hindu woman saint. Ofcourse, congress people are jealous of her religion and her serenity.

    I am sure you wont defend these with your mindset….do you..?

    “The pot calling the kettle black is a very apt statement for what you have been posting so far.”
    I can’t comment personally on you ..as it is against my writing ethics. I dont have anything against you.

    “When your own closet is stuffed with dirty linen as is the case with all major world religions you do not go around laughing at other people’s dirty laundry.”
    You can come out what kind of linen world religions (including atheism) are carrying..Then we can conclude it is dirty or clean..

    “Hundreds of people die in this country every day due to governmental negligence due to road accidents Can you tell me ten things that the right wing in India have done to make the life of the poor average Indian safer?”

    Can you name the party which had built the indias first Express Highway…?
    1) Its Shiv Sena Mumbai-pune project after Bal Thackeray got killed in a mumbai pune road accident.
    2) Golden Quadrilateral Highway Project By Atal Ji.
    3) North south Corridor By Atal Ji
    4) East West corridor by Atal JI

    Oh sorry i took BJP which is not a rightwing, They are just following there culture.
    Now, lets see the real rightwing congress ok. Come with 5 points atleast…Not like the points as under.

    1) Afzal Guru being not hanged.
    We are protecting India by not hanging him if we hang pakistanis will hang entire india.
    2) Conversions of hindu tribals to christianity.
    We are protecting India as hindus are majority it is creating problem for minority..we should share our population with other religions…:)

    “I can give you a link of ten UN reports that show India is doing poorly when compared even with sub saharan Africa.”
    Send them to congress party as they are ones who are in the power for the maximum number of years in India.

    “We need to work hard for the next 3 generations if we want to be even the 2nd World.”
    You work hard no problem i too like it i too will also work. but dont curse our ancestors or our parents or our culture or our religion in the name of liberalism.

  51. @hoku permalink
    November 26, 2008 5:12 pm

    Kumar@
    ‘It is congress which likes Muslims & christians and wants to make India a muslim or a christian country by supporting islamic terrorism and Christian conversions.’

    christian population is about 2% in India, how many years it would require to convert them all and make a christian majority country. In fact this is a oblique reference to Sonia Gandhis regligion of birth. Its a good election tactics. Similarly muslim population is about 15% (13.4%), how long it would take to make a muslim majority country. Dont think that Hindu poulation is growing at any slower rate. Mr. Lalu prasad has nine children. mind it.
    TOP OF IT IF ONE GETS CONVERTED TO OTHER RELIGION, WHATS YOUR PROBLEM? WHY YOU THINK ALL PEOPLE ARE FULL AND THEY CAN BE LURED TO GET CONVERTED.

    Any way no point arguing with you, it seems you are a hardcore cadre of the saffron brigade.

  52. November 26, 2008 5:27 pm

    @ Kumar : Yes I did say religious parties should be banned in agreement to a post above. It is not anti democratic. We are a secular country and like I said religion has no use in the government. How does that make me a Hindu Basher?

    Did I say congress was left wing or right wing? You brought up congress in this discussion. Read my post again.

    The showing of any pornography to any person by an investigative agency can hardly be considered as something so terrible. People watch pornography all the time. May be they were just trying to entertain her. I am sure the woman would have seen enough scenes of copulation on ancient hindu temples not to be bothered by just a video but as I see it these are just news reports that are unverified. The standards of media in this country being what they are….One moment a pirate ship is sunk next day we hear its a fishing trawler.

    So Atal Ji built an expressway! Wooho! Joy to the world! Has it reduced the death rate and accidental death rate>That was the question I had asked.

    Afzal Guru and his hanging. Perhaps you would rather have him lynched. Oh I forget the right wing specialises in that technique. Its called due process. Learn to live with it. The executive branch of the government does not do justice. If the decision is stuck with the government then it is their constitutional prerogative. When your favourite party is elected they can advise the President accordingly. May be its only in India that a major political party makes hanging someone an election issue.

    People have a right to choose their religion and if they are getting a good deal when they convert perhaps you can offer them even a better one. If you can not keep up then do not complain or be bitter. In any case I doubt if those tribals are hindu in the first place. Also before the missionaries came to convert them what had Hindu organisations done for these people? They only got some attention after they converted. You do not like what you hear I am sure but that is how it is. It would be fun to look at the numbers of how many schools and hospitals were opened by hindu organizations for these people before the conversions happened.

    All you can do is blame, blame, blame. Blame Pakistan, Blame the Muslims, Blame the Communists, Blame this or that. You know what take some responsibility on your own actions. The whole world is not out to get you but if you feel that way you can only build walls and create obstacles. People are sick of the blame game now, they want change and they want it now. They will go to anyone who can deliver it but I can tell you now it will not come from what you think is the mainstream, it will come from one among us. Some one will finally get up and say enough! As for me I am saying that to you right now.

  53. November 26, 2008 5:34 pm

    Neil Armstrong could be an avatar of RamChandra(Vishnu). May be it could not get documented since Valmiki wasn’t alive then.

    I need to do some research on it.

    Anshul, I had to remove the reference to the God as it offended a commentator and the one who made it also agreed that the reference be deleted. However, I am letting this comment stand. – Nita.

  54. hoku permalink
    November 26, 2008 5:34 pm

    Odzer@ ‘What is a need to show a porn CD to a hindu woman saint’.
    Its a big lie. Yesterday sadhvis’ lawyer has clarified nothing of that sort has really happened.

  55. November 26, 2008 5:51 pm

    @ Hoku : I am aware of that. However even if she saw one. Porn is just adult entertainment and I am surprised they are making such a hue an cry about something so trivial. Basically some people have value judgments and they want to deflect their own values on all and sundry. I am sure worse things than that happen to prisoners in India. Amnesty has written volumes about it. She is a prisoner of this state and as such she can not expect any better treatment than other prisoners. If people had said “oh lets make conditions for all prisoners better and lets make sure they are not tortured”. It was one thing but here they want to protect one while the rest can all be damned.

  56. Kumar permalink
    November 26, 2008 6:03 pm

    @odzer
    “The showing of any pornography to any person by an investigative agency can hardly be considered as something so terrible. People watch pornography all the time. May be they were just trying to entertain her.”

    If you consider this as entertainment…This really shows what liberalism is..May be its because of our cultural upbringing we differ on this.

    “When your favourite party is elected they can advise the President accordingly. May be its only in India that a major political party makes hanging someone an election issue.”
    I am sure you too will be happy about the development issue when the NDA comes to power.As i am sure you are very happy with the progress of Gujarat state and its developmental programes where BJP is in power.

    “People have a right to choose their religion and if they are getting a good deal when they convert perhaps you can offer them even a better one.”
    Ofcourse, thats why the BJP government is comming with various programmes like tribal welfare and anti conversion bills.Nothing bitter in that.

    “In any case I doubt if those tribals are hindu in the first place”
    On first note Check if your ancestors are not hindus & it doesn’t matter as long as your views reflect what you are.

    “It would be fun to look at the numbers of how many schools and hospitals were opened by hindu organizations for these people before the conversions happened.
    If you see with clean sense without prejudice you can find how many are there and how they are helping the community.

    “All you can do is blame, blame, blame. Blame Pakistan, Blame the Muslims, Blame the Communists, Blame this or that.”
    Can Blaiming Hindus,their culture & heritage solve the problems than it shows what you are.

    “You know what, take some responsibility on your own actions”.
    Thats why congress and liberals never came with an action plan for the problems of Indians nor they take responsibility for the attacks on hindus.

    ” People are sick of the blame game now, they want change and they want it now.”
    “Maut Ka saudagar” Blame had proved what kind of change bought in elections.

    “They will go to anyone who can deliver it but I can tell you now it will not come from what you think is the mainstream”
    BJP with the able leaders were choosed because they can deliver.We are seeing Narendra Bhai Modi’Ji how he is delivering for Gujarat.

    “It will come from one among us.Some one will finally get up and say enough!”
    If you are looking for an alternative to BJP you can think of Lok Satta party..i too like it.Presently it is active in Andhra Pradesh..But slowly spreading to other states.They dont talk religion,caste or creed only development.
    http://www.loksatta.org/

  57. November 26, 2008 7:12 pm

    Oh! Since the comment was in reply to the other comment, you may delete my previous comment too and of course this one, as my comment will no longer make sense, although it wasn’t making much earlier too.🙂

  58. Kumar permalink
    November 26, 2008 7:29 pm

    @ hoku

    “How many years it would require to convert them all and make a christian majority country.”
    ” Similarly muslim population is about 15% (13.4%), how long it would take to make a muslim majority country.”

    Check the statistics of Europe how muslims are wiping the rich culture,language & heritage of Europe.
    That is the reason as per grand strategic alliance USA,EUROPE,INDIA & ISRAEL had forged an alliance against Islamic regimes and communism.Maybe if you can read more about Neoconservatism than you can understand.
    However there are differences among the alliance partners regarding the softpower statuses and propaganda of religion,language & culture within this alliance. But, however there is a broad consensus reached against islamic terrorism, communism and islamic regimes. Now lets see how democrats will take this forward.

    Any way no point arguing with you, it seems you are a hardcore cadre of the saffron brigade.
    I am just a normal Hindusthani or an Indian.Nothing hard nothing core..Just humanism.Its your wish.

    Nita, You should have kept Hoku’s apology..on recod.It should have been on record making a reader realise that for some moderated remarks Hoku had tendered apology..now Its ok.

  59. wishtobeanon permalink
    November 26, 2008 7:33 pm

    Hi Nita, nice objective post. As usual, I enjoy reading the comments by your other readers…One of your commenters had posted a link to a new political party – I looked at the website and it seems to be pretty progressive compared to other political parties in India – I hope they pick momentum!
    As far as my opinion(on all the rubbish thats going on) is concerned, I am guessing you already know it!

  60. hoku permalink
    November 26, 2008 7:49 pm

    Nita thanks for removing that line. I don’t want to hurt any one. More over that was to highlight the ignorance of some people and I am sure that no way undermine stature of any ‘religious god’.
    Kumar@
    Check the statistics of Europe how muslims are wiping the rich culture,language & heritage of Europe.
    So according to you muslims have no culture nothing and they are destroying the culture of the country they stay.
    So people who are getting converted to Islam (one of the fastest growing religion) are behaving like alien in their own country.
    I use to think MTV and other western culture are polluting our culture, but it seems you don’t mind to form an alliance with MTV countries (western) to stop muslims. I would also like to be enlightened how you are going to do that? Is that by using nuclear bomb to annihilate about 30 % (2 billion) Hitler had a similar gigantic plan to annihilate all jew.
    Would you please stop spreading lie regarding ‘blue film’ for sadhvi. May I know the source of your information?

  61. November 26, 2008 8:06 pm

    However even if she saw one. Porn is just adult entertainment and I am surprised they are making such a hue an cry about something so trivial. Basically some people have value judgments and they want to deflect their own values on all and sundry.

    I agree!! Like your position on pornography, perhaps?😉

    I’m not so sure that being a “liberal” implies “everyone has to agree with my definition that pornography is OK and making a hue-and-cry over it is trivial.” It could mean that even though I enjoy pornography, there may be others who don’t and there’s space for their point-of-view too. True laissez faire.

    By the way, calling something good or positive or acceptable is also a value judgment, though most people don’t realize that and bring in the term “value judgment” only when something (they like) is criticized.

  62. hoku permalink
    November 26, 2008 8:12 pm

    Kumar@ one more apology.
    I did not know you are the spokesperson of BJP and especially of Mr. Modi.
    BTW so far my knowledge of economics go Gujarat was a developed state even before Mr. Modi came. Also GDP growth is more during UPA rule than during the NDA rule despite having very bad economic condition world over.
    Also I don’t understand how anti conversion law is in fact for development of the tribals. Any way pseudo seculars are by default ignorant of the cosmic connection between anti conversion and development.
    Kumar I also appreciate your great acumen for avoiding answering any point raised by Odzer. In fact I think this is a great skill of any politician.

  63. November 26, 2008 8:40 pm

    Oh my god! I m so late…your political posts are one of those which if I dont comment within 2-3 hours of posting ; become the hottest area of debate in blogosphere with longgg comments.

    Sigh! people are so willing to fight for their leaders and their ideologies while their leaders are busy filling their bank accounts. Every political party is equally dirty and they waste time, energy,money in slinging verbal mud at each other! They should all advertise for Horlicks or Complan..whatever that gives them the stamina.

    As for worrying over one Sadhvi being shown some porn cds, I wonder what BJP etc are doing in BJP ruled states for the women (Hindus in 99% cases) who are being raped by policemen?

    As for retaliation, if one wants to do it for teaching lesson like US then go and blast a bomb in Pakistan and in a 100% Muslim populated area.
    Mind you those who die may have nothing to do with the blasts in India. And of course u have to be ignorant of the phrase “to be the bigger person” and of there being better ways to handle terrorism other than being terrorists ourselves.

    And as for the ridiculous idea of invasion, I m appalled!! A private estimate made in 1990 by the Pakistan army, of the cost of a full scale conventional war with India was $300 million a day. So we can very well estimate how much will be cost today, not to mention the after effects and the loss of lives. Its so easy to say lets wage war when u r not the one at the border. And even if we are not there, our jobs and our families …(so called 80% Hindus) will get affected too!
    On second thought, if we had some wars off and on maybe our Lt Colonels would be busy fighting for country instead of supplying RDX.

    As for your topic, be it any sort of violence by any group or religion , it is not justified. Period. But these retaliation and justifying them will just end up in world war 3.0.

  64. November 26, 2008 8:40 pm

    Phew! that must be my longest comment ever!

  65. Kumar permalink
    November 26, 2008 8:49 pm

    @Hoku

    So according to you muslims have no culture nothing and they are destroying the culture of the country they stay.
    I never said Muslims are not having any culture.I am not against muslims they are my fellow citizens and i love them.I like to see them as one the progressive citizens in India like Abdul kalam, azim premzi.

    “I use to think MTV and other western culture are polluting our culture., but it seems you don’t mind to form an alliance with

    MTV countries (western) to stop muslims.”
    No one is against muslims we are against islamic regimes which promote terrorism,we are against communism, we are against non-democratic regimes..See, i had mentioned “However there are differences among the alliance partners regarding
    the softpower statuses and propaganda of religion,language & culture within this alliance.”

    Hindus are not against western culture. they respect all cultures across the globe.But they are against imposing.

    “I would also like to be enlightened how you are going to do that?
    MTV, we are having an indianized one..Do you have a problem with that.I dont have problem with that.

    You can scroll back I had given links in the past even another commentator joined with me along giving links about how the Congress government has made to watch a Hindu saint a porn video & we have seen comments also from some liberal cultured people saying it as good entertainment for them.

    “BTW so far my knowledge of economics go Gujarat was a developed state even before Mr. Modi came.”
    You can check the statistics,growth and differences between the governance of past and Modi Ji.

    “Also GDP growth is more during UPA rule than during the NDA rule despite having very bad economic condition world over.”
    Please check when the sub prime financial crises of USA started (its recetly) and still the crisis is yet to affect india in complete.You can’t generalise for entire 5 years of the UPA regime and claim the growth.

    “Also I don’t understand how anti conversion law is in fact for development of the tribals.”
    You can only understand if you work with tribals…:) It will help our country to preserve and sustain our culture.

    “I also appreciate your great acumen for avoiding answering any point raised by Odzer. ”
    You can still raise any points as this blog and postings are still open if anything you feel missed.

  66. November 26, 2008 9:15 pm

    @ Amit : What I said was in relation with what the police are known to do to criminals. Perhaps you missed the context.

  67. hoku permalink
    November 26, 2008 9:26 pm

    Kumar@ this is too much. I quoted your text. You said ‘Check the statistics of Europe how muslims are wiping the rich culture,language & heritage of Europe.’ It clearly shows what you think of Muslims. You say they are your friends and bla bla. Then why you need to form aliance with MTV countries?
    Just one more point, don’t you think had a muslim written all these…..’how hindus are wiping the rich culture….'(your words only, i changed the religion) I am sure you would have branded him as traitor a terrorist, osama bin etc etc.

  68. hoku permalink
    November 26, 2008 9:28 pm

    Kumar@
    “BTW so far my knowledge of economics go Gujarat was a developed state even before Mr. Modi came.”
    You can check the statistics,growth and differences between the governance of past and Modi Ji.
    STILL MY POINT STANDS.

    “Also GDP growth is more during UPA rule than during the NDA rule despite having very bad economic condition world over.”
    Please check when the sub prime financial crises of USA started (its recetly) and still the crisis is yet to affect india in complete.You can’t generalise for entire 5 years of the UPA regime and claim the growth.
    I DONT UNDERSTAND.

  69. Kumar permalink
    November 26, 2008 9:54 pm

    @ hoku
    “It clearly shows what you think of Muslims. You say they are your friends and bla bla.”
    I am telling about Indian Muslims.

    Hoku…Here i am giving you the links where you can read the problem of muslims & islam in europe and how it is effecting the culture,heritage & languages of Europe.
    http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20050701faessay84409/robert-s-leiken/europe-s-angry-muslims.html

    http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20060101faletter85166/liat-radcliffe-ross/europe-s-divided-muslims.html

    http://szinko.wordpress.com/2007/05/21/glocalization-of-muslim-migration-in-europe-in-or-out-of-control/

    http://www.vdare.com/francis/terrorist_haven.htm

    “Then why you need to form aliance with MTV
    countries?”
    The reason of the formation of the alliance is to safeguard the democratic values globally.

    Please, google with search terms & read whenever you didn’t understood.

    “I DONT UNDERSTAND.”
    The present slowdown of the global economy had started recently.So, “you can’t claim that the growth rate of UPA government in last 5 years has been achieved despite having very bad economic condition world over.”

  70. November 26, 2008 9:55 pm

    @odzer, no, I didn’t miss the context. I carefully read both your comments which mentioned pornography being shown to her in prison and your perspective on it.

  71. November 26, 2008 10:00 pm

    Much clarity in your post than in TV/newspaper media.. Nice one!! and very nice to see comments here after a long time (North vs South post)

  72. Kumar permalink
    November 26, 2008 10:24 pm

    @ Correction:

    A typing mistake error in the following sentence posted for Odzer in one of the above posts by me.

    “1) Its Shiv Sena Mumbai-pune project after Bal Thackeray got killed in a mumbai pune road accident.”

    It should be ..

    “1) Its Shiv Sena which had proposed & built Mumbai-pune Express highway project after Bal saheb Thackeray’s son Bindumadhav got killed in a mumbai pune road accident.”

  73. November 26, 2008 11:05 pm

    Whoever is checking this place now, there are some attacks in Mumbai, no one knows what, maybe terror, maybe gangsters.

    10 mins later: there are blasts all over mumbai they say.

  74. November 26, 2008 11:32 pm

    The situation looks scary Nita. They are reporting terrorists inside the kitchen of Taj Hotel.

  75. November 26, 2008 11:40 pm

    Yes, and the lobby of Oberoi is on fire, terrorists are inside the hotel and at vt station. I feel like crying right now. In fact there are tears in my eyes, seeing all those people injured, the blood, god knows how many have died. my daughter’s friends who live there say there are more blasts, they heard them.

  76. November 26, 2008 11:47 pm

    it seems more of a gangster thing than a terrorist attack..waiting for confirmation.

  77. November 26, 2008 11:48 pm

    NDTV says till now 3 dead 25 injured

  78. November 27, 2008 12:31 am

    @ Nita : Just saw some news on some websites. Do not know many details. A lot are dead apparently. Around 25.

  79. Kumar permalink
    November 27, 2008 12:57 am

    What kind of a nation we are living in.What kind of ATS we are having in mumbai.They are busy showing obscene Porn video to Pragya Thakur.And left the terrorists on people.This is the mockerey of the democracy and the central government had failed once again to protect people from terrorists attacks.Now we have to wait for the Shivraj patil to say his regular comments.

    Its been high time the government is playing with people’s emotions and killing indians in the name of terrorism.
    once people can believe,
    Twice people can think of it,
    Thrice people can forget the first one
    Fourth time…each and every attack people can remember and they will give the response to the congress government.

  80. lallopallo permalink
    November 27, 2008 1:28 am

    Nita, I just read about mumbai blasts. Please take care of yourself and keep us posted as soon you get the opportunity.

  81. November 27, 2008 1:42 am

    Nita, take care. What have we done to deserve this ?

  82. R.Sajan permalink
    November 27, 2008 2:59 am

    The basic cause is our secularism. Indian secularism is as unnatural as Catholic clerical celibacy.
    If we had true secularism, things would have been okay.
    -Writing this as I watch Mumbai incidents on TV [26-27 Nov night]

  83. Kumar permalink
    November 27, 2008 3:10 am

    @ Sajan,

    True secularism..?
    whats that..again a new agenda of congress..? or Killing more Hindus in the name of new secularism..? or is it
    In the name of terrorism..Playing with peoples emotions..? or enjoying
    By making people travel in traffic with full of pollution and imposing new cultures on people and finally Killing them in the name of terrorism ..This is INDIA. What more..you want to impose on India.

  84. November 27, 2008 3:18 am

    Nita:

    I spent the last 4 hours following the Mumbai blasts. Hope your family and friends are ok.

    Tragic and infuriating….

  85. November 27, 2008 5:15 am

    Nita hope you are okie.

    I am filled with rage watching this news all over.

  86. November 27, 2008 6:23 am

    Mumbai, The due time boiling came out.
    Things that were not held too long.
    The worst part is that have targeted common man in sleep, and this time it was like a war on streets of Mumbai.
    We salute bravery of those brave officer’s who are fighting and dieing for us, so that we are safe.

  87. November 27, 2008 6:23 am

    This makes me sad and angry. Nita, hope you and your family/friends are safe.

  88. snippetsnscribbles permalink
    November 27, 2008 6:34 am

    Nita – i hope you and your family are fine….reply asap.

  89. Vivek Khadpekar permalink
    November 27, 2008 6:42 am

    What’s happening in Mumbai is shocking. At 1215 a.m. I phoned my one friend who lives in what, at that time, was reported to be the affected area. He was safe. I hope every visitor to this blog living in Mumbai visiting this blog is also safe.

  90. wishtobeanon permalink
    November 27, 2008 7:25 am

    Hi Nita, very disturbing… Sad that again there have been so many deaths and injuries. Also, unfortunately some brave policemen and the anti-terrorist chief have died. I hope there are no more deaths.

  91. November 27, 2008 7:29 am

    Heard the news. Hope you guys are ok.

  92. November 27, 2008 7:30 am

    Our family is all fine but the situation is horrifying. Many police officers are dead, including ATS Chief Hemant Karkare.200 people are being held hostage at the Taj Mahal in Mumbai and some at Oberois. Some people are being held hostage in a residential building at Mumbai, all Jewish families. There was a massacre at Leopold where mostly foreigners go to. It’s an open air cafe.
    What’s our country coming to. What’s happening? I am so confused.

    And these places are not sleeping, that is why they were targeted. These places in Mumbai are teeming with people at night, leopold, vt station etc. The attacks started at around 9:30 p.m.

  93. November 27, 2008 8:06 am

    Came to ask if you are fine. Read the comment above, it’s horrifying. Take care.

  94. November 27, 2008 9:57 am

    Thanks to all of you who have contributed to this post with your insightful comments. I am not replying individually to the comments as there are too many. But I have read each and every comment and thanks for adding to my article and showing concern.

    Reema, thank you for writing this:

    As for worrying over one Sadhvi being shown some porn cds, I wonder what BJP etc are doing in BJP ruled states for the women (Hindus in 99% cases) who are being raped by policemen?

    No politician really cares about women’s safety or citizens’ safety. They highlight certain incidents to play to the gallery.

  95. Kumar permalink
    November 27, 2008 12:28 pm

    Odzer, Thank you for giving such an insightful comment to which i am sure everyone will agree..

    “Sure India is an emerging economy but what is the standard of life in India even when compared with all the emerging economies? The time is still not come to rest on our laurels. We need to work hard for the next 3 generations if we want to be even the 2nd World.People are sick of the blame game now, they want change and they want it now.” – Odzer

    It shows how much we need to work to provide security & better life to our citizens.Instead of Indian Government wasting time on trivial matters like showing a porn CD’s to Hindu woman saint and maligning Indian Army. Congress government has to tackle terrorism and has to give top priority in their governance.In the backdrop of ongoing terrorists attacks on Mumbai,India your comments are more valid and valued.

  96. November 27, 2008 4:13 pm

    95 comments…. I am very very late here..

    Terrorism has no religion..If proven guilty..one should be punished.no matter what caste,creed, religion, mationalty they belong to..

  97. R.Sajan permalink
    November 28, 2008 5:02 am

    @Kumar::

    ” – Sajan, True secularism..?”

    True secularism is where religion has nothing to do with governance at all. For example, you shall not have to mention your religion in any government related paper.

    God and religion is all foolishness, anyway. I know some astrology and hypnotism. If I feel like it, I can become a godman. Indian ‘secularists’ tempt me with their motivated hypocrisy and genuine ignorance, into going godman.

  98. Dnyanesh permalink
    November 29, 2008 1:14 pm

    About 200 people died.
    1. How much time do you think it will take to forget this? for people? for politicians? for people who lost their loved ones?
    2. What issue politicians will find to divert our attention from this?
    3. Will our police force get new guns or they will continue using guns they got from Gov Gen Mountbatten?
    4. Do you think police could have saved some lives if they had better guns?
    5. Will MPs think that it is better to provide more funds to police force than giving it to loss making PSUs?
    6. Will we cooperate if government comes up with tougher laws to protect us from NRP? (Non resident Pakistanis)🙂

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